|
|
Post by kerry on Aug 22, 2020 14:30:24 GMT -5
Hi wayne
Unlike Garrett and Poe - Mckinley did not put his account in writing...his version was preserved by his family and deserves respect as were the views of the Garrett family in later years -provenance of blood trumps even masonic brotherhood!
Poe and Mckinley couldn't identify BTK and the stories related by Kip' do vary but are not mutually exclusive -only Garrett shot the victim in the bedroom....if Kip shot the wrong man-if he shot BTK -if BTK escaped -then several shots were fired that night and at another man .Although reportedly Kip was reticent about July 14 1881 -the more sensation account attributed to him was not entired false --according to Poe's written account (requested by his wife later in life) the trio did stake out BTK's girlfriend's house unsuccwssfully prior to going to the Maxwell house which was considered neutral ground ...
Both Kip and Brushy say Pat wasn't the only shooter that night and that a,gun fight did take place off the Maxwell's porch where Kip was located.Mckinley didn't need the glory -he had performed a daring exploit in May far more sensational courageous -and honourable -that any of the machinations contrived at Fort Sumner. ..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 14:46:51 GMT -5
Hmm... That does sound like something I hypothesized months ago, that I don't believe that there was just one isolated shooting (ie, Pat) in Fort Sumner that night, but that it was probable more than one person got capped that night either by crossfire or intention.
That would explain John Miller's mysterious injury at his wedding (ie, chest wound) and would explain the rumors of somebody else, biracial, was killed as well. There probably was more than one burial that day in Fort Sumner, and maybe the two burials merged as one in the mind's of certain people.
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all 😊
|
|
|
|
Post by Elwood on Aug 22, 2020 15:46:01 GMT -5
Hi wayne Unlike Garrett and Poe - Mckinley did not put his account in writing...his version was preserved by his family and deserves respect as were the views of the Garrett family in later years -provenance of blood trumps even masonic brotherhood! Poe and Mckinley couldn't identify BTK and the stories related by Kip' do vary but are not mutually exclusive -only Garrett shot the victim in the bedroom....if Kip shot the wrong man-if he shot BTK -if BTK escaped -then several shots were fired that night and at another man .Although reportedly Kip was reticent about July 14 1881 -the more sensation account attributed to him was not entired false --according to Poe's written account (requested by his wife later in life) the trio did stake out BTK's girlfriend's house unsuccwssfully prior to going to the Maxwell house which was considered neutral ground ... Both Kip and Brushy say Pat wasn't the only shooter that night and that a,gun fight did take place off the Maxwell's porch where Kip was located.Mckinley didn't need the glory -he had performed a daring exploit in May far more sensational courageous -and honourable -that any of the machinations contrived at Fort Sumner. .. Some of what Kip McKinney (1856-1915) had stated, though seven years after McKinney died. Denver Post, Nov. 26, 1922, pg 8:
Fort Stockton, Tex., Nov. 25. - (A.P.) -- The controversy over who fired the shot that killed "Billy the Kid", famous southwestern outlaw, has been revived by Howell Johnson, county attorney of Pecos county. Johnson says it was Kip McKinney of Uvalde, then a deputy under Pat Garrett and later a ranger at Fort Davis, who killed the Kid, according to McKinney's story to Johnson. McKinney said he and Garrett went into a Mexican house where the Kid was hiding, lying on a cot in the dark of the room. They went in, struck a match and McKinney fired as the Kid rose from the cot. |
|
|
|
Post by leeb on Aug 23, 2020 14:10:23 GMT -5
Hi wayne Unlike Garrett and Poe - Mckinley did not put his account in writing...his version was preserved by his family and deserves respect as were the views of the Garrett family in later years -provenance of blood trumps even masonic brotherhood! Poe and Mckinley couldn't identify BTK and the stories related by Kip' do vary but are not mutually exclusive -only Garrett shot the victim in the bedroom....if Kip shot the wrong man-if he shot BTK -if BTK escaped -then several shots were fired that night and at another man .Although reportedly Kip was reticent about July 14 1881 -the more sensation account attributed to him was not entired false --according to Poe's written account (requested by his wife later in life) the trio did stake out BTK's girlfriend's house unsuccwssfully prior to going to the Maxwell house which was considered neutral ground ... Both Kip and Brushy say Pat wasn't the only shooter that night and that a,gun fight did take place off the Maxwell's porch where Kip was located.Mckinley didn't need the glory -he had performed a daring exploit in May far more sensational courageous -and honourable -that any of the machinations contrived at Fort Sumner. .. whilst this is a lovely story as Wayne said the word 'provenance'. It's seems you have no proof or go to as where your information stems from. Chinese family whispers don't cut the ice, of which you wouldn't be party to anyway. No disrespect but this really isn't truthful in any shape or form. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 12:19:25 GMT -5
"Chinese family whispers" are not to be dismissed. For decades it was rumored that my great grandfather had a wife and son before he married my great grandmother. Nobody could remember her name, and nobody knew where the marriage ever took place, etc. It was always thought to be nothing more than a fairytale.
A couple of years ago my parents and I decided to decide for ourselves and began looking. Sure enough we found the woman's name and the boys name, but to track them down after that point was brick wall after brick wall. Finally I discovered that the woman's brother just so happened to be a famous artist in upstate New York and in his obituary it listed her by a new name, she remarried.
So we looked that name up and found out after remarriage her new husband adopted her son as his own and took on that name, and I found out that he was a navigator during WW2 and was a POW in Sweden, and later on ended up as a bigwig at IBM and he died in 1998. His wife's address was provided and we wrote to her, and a few weeks later his daughter sent us a birth certificate for "Bruce Defibaugh", which proved concretely that he was indeed the man we was looking for all along.
"Chinese family whispers" can be something, even when nobody believes it or is completely unsure about it. When it comes to Billy The Kid, even TRUE WEST MAGAZINE has admitted in the passed year or so that EVERYTHING that we may know about Billy The Kid could be completely wrong because the evidence surrounding Billy The Kid's life is largely anecdotal.
As for Brushy Bill Roberts, I don't believe that the man was Billy The Kid but there are enough interesting things in his legitimate genealogical record, as well as his knowledge of certain things, as well as his striking similarity to Joseph Antrim and Billy The Kid, that makes one think it probable that some sort of relationship existed.
Thanks to oluckyman helping me on the Henry Oliver Roberts thread we came across a familial relationship between the Roberts family and the Antrim family, so indeed some sort of relationship existed. So it wasn't complete bull**** or lies. There was something there.
The question is just how connected were William Antrim and Henry Oliver Roberts? What I mean by that is did they keep in contact? Did they ever meet? Was there family reunions and gatherings? Did Henry Oliver Roberts actually meet Billy The Kid?
In my opinion he must've at some point. After all, the picture that Brushy Bill Roberts said was himself was on a horse with McSween's brand. I speculate, in reality, the man on the horse was Henry Oliver Roberts and he got the job with her because his cousin was Billy The Kid's stepfather or biological father.
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all 😊
|
|
|
|
Post by chivato88 on Sept 9, 2020 18:40:07 GMT -5
with all his aliases,don't think he did'nt also have as many profile identities. I know of one alias that noone has ever heard. Charles Siringo in his interview say's by the time the small family of four moved to Santa Fe,NM, Billy was around 5 years old. that means they would have been there in the early 1860s. Santa Fe to Fort Sumner is about 150 miles. This may have been covered already, about a book: The True History of Billy the Kid by Harold T. Bolieu – July 6, 2020 by Harold T. Bolieu Details about William Henry Roberts supposedly in this book. I just finished it, anyone that says that Brushy got all the info in Burns's will eat their own words after reading this book, just read it and youll know what I mean 😀 |
|
|
|
Post by Michael Ram on Sept 22, 2020 1:02:55 GMT -5
Mr. Land, have you found out the truth about WJM? you are on the right track!
|
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Sept 22, 2020 10:16:43 GMT -5
Michael,
Please explain. If you know something, then please share. Who are you referring to with the initials WJM?
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael Ram on Jan 26, 2021 2:03:00 GMT -5
Wayne can you not connect the dots and seeing the possibility of "Billy the Kid Maxwell" Maxwell family secret.
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael Ram on Jan 26, 2021 2:06:09 GMT -5
Look up what the name Julian means.
|
|
|
|
Post by tboor74 on Jan 26, 2021 5:43:32 GMT -5
William Julian Maxwell? He was Lucien's offspring wasn't he?
|
|
|
|
Post by Elwood on Jan 26, 2021 9:26:09 GMT -5
William Julian Maxwell? He was Lucien's offspring wasn't he? A JULIAN MAXWELL name engraved on a tombstone marker with this family group in the Old Fort Sumner Cemetery in New Mexico. |
|
|
|
Post by tboor74 on Jan 26, 2021 10:45:30 GMT -5
And? Where is this meant to be headed?
|
|
|
|
Post by cassandra jane on Jan 26, 2021 14:08:23 GMT -5
Look up what the name Julian means. This means literally nothing though, I’m all for name symbolism but without context you’re just asking people to jump through fiery hoops with no fire safety gear. Maybe my brain just isn’t working tonight but you need to explain this properly so we can follow your line of thought. |
|
|
|
Post by leeb on Jan 26, 2021 15:17:49 GMT -5
Truewest article Feb 2017. 'Billy's bastard child '.
|
|
