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Post by mckinley412 on Jul 6, 2016 9:42:36 GMT -5
I have been reading through all of these comments. Very good input from both sides. I just want to respond to all of them sporadiclly. If a census shows Henry Oliver's father's name as Joseph Roberts it could be that his name was Joseph Benjamin Roberts or Benjaman Joseph Roberts. This would not be uncommon, just the way William Henry McCarty went by Henry and then later returned to William. Also many people had an alias back then, so if William S. Roberts died in 1936 whose to say that was the William S. born to J.H.Roberts or someone that took his identity. The Martha and Dudley link pretty much confirm that this is the right Roberts family, or part of the right family. I find usually that the problems with Brushy's stories (I go by the ABTK book not Lost Interviews book which I read once and didn't believe it was legit, but I will give it another read soon) never come from 'his' quotes and unfortunately it is the author telling the story of the runaway Oliver in ABTK which may have caused some issues. For example, Brushy is ridiculed for calling it the 3 day battle when he is not quoted as saying that, the author called it the 3 day battle. I also think he gets misunderstood a lot, for example when he says -Buckshot got Brewer and almost got me- he's saying Buckshot killed Brewer and almost killed him, he isn't saying he didn't get shot. He could be saying 'we buried Tunstall' and be speaking about the regulators as a whole, a group he is part of, it doesn't mean he had to be there, Now if he would have said I swore that day "at" the funeral it would be different, but he didn't. Like Wayneland said, it is very possible a young girl had a baby Oliver and they gave it up for adoption or whatever. The Dunn family was living in Kansas, I'm sorry I didn't save this record before I quit my free trial of the ancestry site but if you search for "Oliver P. Roberts" born in Kansas 1877 you should be able to find this 3 yearold in the 1880 census and he is living with a family in another state. He is the only one with the Roberts name and I think the only one born in Kansas, it was like he was a child somebody gave up, idk. May not be any connection but it shows there are many possibilities. One question: I have copies dated 2002 of Lucas Speers quoting Brushy as saying "Dolan and his boys rode up on Tunstall," when ABTK doesn't mention Dolan. So how was he quoting Brushy 'supposedly' more accurately when The Lost Interviews didn't come out until 2012??? This is one problem I have with The Lost Interviews. I have many many problems with that book. I will most likely bring them up later. Probably after I read it again and speak with the author.
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 2, 2016 11:55:15 GMT -5
I am cleaning up some of my old notes. I'm not sure what I was talking about when I wrote this one years ago but it says "the preface of West of Billy the Kid last two paragraphs and then says Joe Grant both call him old Chisum." So I assumed I was referencing something about how Brushy Bill also referred referred to Chisum as 'old' John Chisum-page 24 etc. of ABTK. So now I've recorded that thought I can throw this note away. Also last night as I was going to bed I was thinking about why if you were going to make up a fake name like Billy Barlow would you choose somebody that has the first name as Billy the Kid- If you know what I mean -most people just wouldn't do that. If you asked Little Johnny who stole the cookies out of the jar and he wants to make up a lie to cover his best friend Tommy Jones, he's not going to say Tommy Smith did it, he's going to make up a name not like Tommy's. Idk. Just some stuff to think about.
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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 2, 2016 12:46:40 GMT -5
Interesting stuff mckinley412. Concerning Billy Barlow, you made me think of this. If Billy Barlow was an alias and the young man was an admirer of Billy The Kid, then "he" may have chosen to use the name "Billy" out of admiration. Just a thought.
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Post by mckinley412 on May 22, 2017 12:27:16 GMT -5
I just listened to short tape of Brushy's voice recording that was posted on Brushy Debunk Society on Facebook some time ago. I reposted to the Facebook Billy the Kid group. Brushy says he was at the World's Fair in 1894 and they correct him and changes it to 1904. No reason to lie. Whether born in 1859 or 1879 he could have been there. It is clear to me that he was bad with dates. Most likely his mind was slipping which I think would have made it harder to pull off a hoax. I believe Morrison sincerely believed the old man.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on May 22, 2017 15:33:15 GMT -5
"I believe Morrison sincerely believed the old man."
Thain, I agree with that statement. However, that does not mean that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid.
"It is clear to me that he was bad with dates."
Very bad indeed with dates. He said he was in Texas in 1873 at his father's house, but he was in Santa Fe when his mother, Catherine McCarty married William Antrim 1 March 1873.
His problem with dates was even worse when he said he was born in 1859 rather than 1879.
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Post by Wayne Land on May 22, 2017 19:00:25 GMT -5
"Very bad indeed with dates. He said he was in Texas in 1873 at his father's house, but he was in Santa Fe when his mother, Catherine McCarty married William Antrim 1 March 1873."
Very interesting. I wasn't aware that if history says you were in one place on one specific day, then you couldn't have been anywhere else the other 364 days of that year. Or maybe 1873 only had one day in it. That would explain everything.
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Post by mckinley412 on May 27, 2017 15:31:21 GMT -5
John P. Meadows emphasizes a couple things in his story about Billy came directly from the Kid's mouth. One being that Billy fired at Bell while laying on his stomach and another being that Billy told Olinger to "Look up." Did Brushy get these details from Meadows or vice versa?
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Post by chesixx73 on Jun 24, 2017 17:34:47 GMT -5
billies chin changed due to lack of teeth or dentures ect..
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Post by mckinley412 on Jun 26, 2017 21:56:02 GMT -5
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Post by Badger81 on Feb 2, 2019 16:03:12 GMT -5
You can find all different variations of William Ollie Roberts Robert William Antrim, and on and on in every census from 1880 to 1925, from Yuma to Texarkana...
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Post by Roberto on Mar 18, 2019 20:10:54 GMT -5
Poe says Billy seemed to be fixing his trousers as he was walking toward Pete Maxwell's room. How could he be doing that carrying a six shooter and a carving knife?
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Post by Roberto on Mar 19, 2019 13:08:04 GMT -5
Try it
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Post by Michael Ram on Jul 27, 2020 22:03:15 GMT -5
with all his aliases,don't think he did'nt also have as many profile identities. I know of one alias that noone has ever heard. Charles Siringo in his interview say's by the time the small family of four moved to Santa Fe,NM, Billy was around 5 years old. that means they would have been there in the early 1860s. Santa Fe to Fort Sumner is about 150 miles.
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Post by Elwood on Jul 31, 2020 21:00:15 GMT -5
with all his aliases,don't think he did'nt also have as many profile identities. I know of one alias that noone has ever heard. Charles Siringo in his interview say's by the time the small family of four moved to Santa Fe,NM, Billy was around 5 years old. that means they would have been there in the early 1860s. Santa Fe to Fort Sumner is about 150 miles. This may have been covered already, about a book: The True History of Billy the Kid by Harold T. Bolieu – July 6, 2020 by Harold T. Bolieu Details about William Henry Roberts supposedly in this book. |
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 2, 2020 12:28:47 GMT -5
with all his aliases,don't think he did'nt also have as many profile identities. I know of one alias that noone has ever heard. Charles Siringo in his interview say's by the time the small family of four moved to Santa Fe,NM, Billy was around 5 years old. that means they would have been there in the early 1860s. Santa Fe to Fort Sumner is about 150 miles.
Extract: "On July 21, 1870, Catherine McCarty signed the petition to Judge Reuben Riggs of Sedgwick County to incorporate the town of Wichita. Of 124 signers, she was the only woman. William Antrim signed below her. Judge Riggs granted the petition and the town of Wichita was born.
In 1871, both William and Catherine purchased lots in town on what are now Market and Main Streets and quarter sections of land near what is now Wichita State University."
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