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Post by chivato88 on Sept 1, 2021 17:14:08 GMT -5
He was a Ring tool without even knowing it, just like Dolan and the other boys. If you ask me he was one of the hired killers of the Santa Fe ring. T.B. Catron wanted Oliver Lee dead and he put Garrett sherrif to make it legit and when the AMBUSH went wrong Garrett backed away. The only thing nice I have to say about him is that he did what he could under the circumstances of drinking, adultering and gambling...
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Post by cassandra jane on Sept 1, 2021 18:23:54 GMT -5
I was reading everyone's posts about Garrett, really good info. I knew some of his life after "killing" the kid, but did not know all of these details. With his lackluster law enforcement career and conflicts near the end of his life, not to mention his financial troubles, the guy was a mess. I don't think he was necessarily an evil man, but, maybe not the good guy in the white hat that some try to portray him as. I mean,when you add up every failure up in Pat's life, would killing the wrong guy in 1881 be such a stretch? Mr Garrett was if nothing more an excellent lawman, some character assassinations on this forum are nothing more than disappointing and disrespectful. If you really believe that then why are you here? Pat Garrett’s “murder first, ask questions never” approach is incredibly reminiscent of the global police standard today - would you still vouch for him if he were a 21st century officer going around shooting defenceless men today? There’s nothing excellent or admirable about killing helpless civilians and I think you need to reevaluate your moral compass as such.
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Post by kerry on Sept 1, 2021 20:46:21 GMT -5
I was reading everyone's posts about Garrett, really good info. I knew some of his life after "killing" the kid, but did not know all of these details. With his lackluster law enforcement career and conflicts near the end of his life, not to mention his financial troubles, the guy was a mess. I don't think he was necessarily an evil man, but, maybe not the good guy in the white hat that some try to portray him as. I mean,when you add up every failure up in Pat's life, would killing the wrong guy in 1881 be such a stretch? Mr Garrett was if nothing more an excellent lawman, some character assassinations on this forum are nothing more than disappointing and disrespectful. good guy bad guy... pats death kept their legend alive...
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Post by CP on Sept 1, 2021 21:32:08 GMT -5
Like I said before, believing the Brushy Bill theory or not ( which I happen to believe) has no bearing on whether you believe Pat was a good or bad lawman. The individual trying to defend Pat needs to realize that the facts that are presented on this PG thread have very little to do with any Brushy theory and are historical facts from mainstream historians. Garrett made mistakes in the pursuit of the kid, he joined the Texas Rangers and quit after a few weeks,he went after some suspects in the Fountain case,and, his deputy was killed and the suspects were found not guilty. As far as a "character assassination" as it was put above, I don't know what was in his character, he may have been a decent man, but, the historical facts ( yes, in real history books, not fabricated ones,whatever that means)do not whatsoever support PG as being a good lawman. That is the history! History does not care about "leeb" or anyone else agreeing with it. In fact, trying to make Pat Garrett or any other historical figure something they were not because of your own beliefs does a disservice to that person. Saying that Pat was a great lawman really is a punch in the gut to figures like Bat Masterson and Wyatt Earp, who yes, also made mistakes, but, had great careers maintaining law and order in a lawless time.
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Post by tboor74 on Sept 2, 2021 3:04:30 GMT -5
Garret seemed to have a lot of bad luck financially, and also seemed to screw up several opportunities with needless liberties, ie when he tried to pass off a boozing buddy as a cattle owner to Roosevelt and lost Teddy's valuable and unswerving suppport. That may have been foolish (very foolish)....leaving his family in NM to move in with a lady of questionable repute in El Paso meanwhile reeks of poor integrity.
However, was Garrett just a pawn in bigger games, trying to do his best in lawless times only to end up desperate straits time and time again?
He wasn't a saint, but certainly not as bad as many try and paint him.
Just my thoughts, there are many more learned than me on here.
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Post by RonBk on Sept 2, 2021 4:00:40 GMT -5
Like many others he probably tried to make the best of things, and due to various circumstances his life unfoulded as it did. He may have been a man of questionable character yes. But we should all be thankful he helped Btk fake his own death, otherwise we wouldnt be having this interesting conversation.
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Post by leeb on Sept 2, 2021 13:05:43 GMT -5
Mr Garrett was if nothing more an excellent lawman, some character assassinations on this forum are nothing more than disappointing and disrespectful. If you really believe that then why are you here? Pat Garrett’s “murder first, ask questions never” approach is incredibly reminiscent of the global police standard today - would you still vouch for him if he were a 21st century officer going around shooting defenceless men today? There’s nothing excellent or admirable about killing helpless civilians and I think you need to reevaluate your moral compass as such. thanks for judging myself as well? Rather shallow. Moral compass? I don't live in the states!
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Post by cassandra jane on Sept 2, 2021 14:36:38 GMT -5
If you really believe that then why are you here? Pat Garrett’s “murder first, ask questions never” approach is incredibly reminiscent of the global police standard today - would you still vouch for him if he were a 21st century officer going around shooting defenceless men today? There’s nothing excellent or admirable about killing helpless civilians and I think you need to reevaluate your moral compass as such. thanks for judging myself as well? Rather shallow. Moral compass? I don't live in the states! Where in my response did I say 1) you live in the US and 2) that living in the US equals global policing standard? The law in all nations is unbelievably corrupt or plain useless and that’s a fact proven time and time again. It doesn’t matter where you live, most human beings do have moral compasses. The idea that you think I’m shallow for pointing out the fantasy you have of Garrett being a great policeman or wonderful man in general is just laughable. It’s not shallow to point out a person’s shortcomings, and even less so to point out the hero worship from said person’s fans. EDIT: I just want to add in that I in no way, shape or form think Garrett was evil - absolutely not, just so nobody thinks I do hold that view. I don't think he was any more evil than Billy or anyone else they knew (bar some who I wouldn't go near but that's for another day).
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Post by DanJohno on Sept 2, 2021 19:37:37 GMT -5
I was reading everyone's posts about Garrett, really good info. I knew some of his life after "killing" the kid, but did not know all of these details. With his lackluster law enforcement career and conflicts near the end of his life, not to mention his financial troubles, the guy was a mess. I don't think he was necessarily an evil man, but, maybe not the good guy in the white hat that some try to portray him as. I mean,when you add up every failure up in Pat's life, would killing the wrong guy in 1881 be such a stretch? Mr Garrett was if nothing more an excellent lawman, some character assassinations on this forum are nothing more than disappointing and disrespectful. What about your constant belittling of Brushy Bill Roberts. All you ever say is "Brushy was a fraud" and "Old Brushy was a liar". I see this "bully playing the victim" behaviour everyday at work.
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Post by chivato88 on Sept 2, 2021 19:59:23 GMT -5
He says we're ignoring historics facts, well he is no better.
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Post by kerry on Sept 3, 2021 2:54:36 GMT -5
Mr Garrett was if nothing more an excellent lawman, some character assassinations on this forum are nothing more than disappointing and disrespectful. If you really believe that then why are you here? Pat Garrett’s “murder first, ask questions never” approach is incredibly reminiscent of the global police standard today - would you still vouch for him if he were a 21st century officer going around shooting defenceless men today? There’s nothing excellent or admirable about killing helpless civilians and I think you need to reevaluate your moral compass as such. . Pat apparently met up with Billy Wilson who originally owned the 6m dollar colt?? when living in Texas towards the end of the century...the story goes -Pat got Billy(Dave Anderson) a pardon as he had escaped jail in Santa Fe ...Dave later got a customs job which was probably Pat as well.Anderson served the last years of his life as a popular sherriff. Also on the plus side - Pat's involvement in irrigation schemes must have been of some public service even though it always ended in personal failure..perhaps more than most - Pat Garrett was known for the company he kept ...responsible for his rise as well as his fall.
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