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Post by tboor74 on Oct 28, 2020 4:52:52 GMT -5
nmjames,
I should have checked, but I thought Burns said Dudley and his men marched into town, my mistake.
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Post by tboor74 on Oct 29, 2020 3:24:58 GMT -5
Same thoughtline and I'm sure it's been mentioned before but why would Brushy go into such detail regarding working in Argentina and then the Shetland Isles if it weren't true? He wanted to be believed so it seems odd he'd make up such outlandish claims which to the uninitiated would undermine his cause? The thing is, what he said is true. Horses/broncos/ponies were traded to Argentina from the US and if I wanted someone to ensure they were delivered and settled I'd pick someone who knew what they were doing to go with them and make sure the job was completed. I have a pal who lives on the other side of the world who rings me for advice and to do spot checks for him here, he doesn't use people in his company, he uses me, someone he trusts knows the subject, to get the job done. Makes sense. The Argentinian Falabella ponies were starting to be bred with Shetland ponies from the early 1880s and categorically, in the mid 1890s. Brushy, if he was Texan or NM would have knowledge of this as Shetlands had been going to Texas and the US for a couple of decades (there's old stud books proving this). The ponies ran wild in Shetland, needed rounding up and if I was buying them I'd want a trained eye picking them out. The whole Argentina- Shetland Isles thing fits perfectly, timeline and experience. Even if we were to say "ah, he had knowledge of Shetland ponies going to the US", that doesn't mean he would need to even mention Argentina. He could have just said "I went to get some Shetland ponies to bring home". The cicumstances fit perfectly, US broncos sold to Argentina, escort and skilled horseman needed to accompany them and get them settled, then when in Argentina Juan Falabella is wanting new bloodlines for his miniature horses, including Shetlands. Here's a skilled horseman with knowledge of Shetland ponies. Of course you'd ask him to help. Brushy also knew enough to say he spent 3 months rounding up 150 odd ponies to go to Argentina. This is what happened, as the ponies ran wild (although under distinct ownership) and exports in the time period were approaching 1000 per annum. We've got a few Shetlands here and even back in the 1870s a local businessman had a share in the breeding and ownership, hence some of the info. There is no way you could pick up the info in passing, by accident, and blend it together so it works. Also, why would you? Brushy 'may' have known somebody who did the above, but it fits the BTK skill set very well and why risk the whole tale floundering due to inserting such specific info? Not proof of BTK per se but I am convinced Brushy did those jobs as stated. And if he was O P Roberts, not BTK, how did he never leave his home area yet accomplish the above?
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Post by leeb on Oct 29, 2020 5:09:11 GMT -5
Brushy's Shetland trip resulted with him being back in the States within 3 months. The return boat trip would've taken longer itself.
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Post by tboor74 on Oct 29, 2020 5:26:12 GMT -5
On a steamer? It would have been a few days each way to the US. Certainly no more than a week, which gives ample leeway for the 3 month sojourn. Cattle were being transported this way by the 1870s, Shetland ponies would be a breeze. 70 % of our cattle imports in the UK by 1900 came from the US and journey time in the 1890s was 6 days on average. Who knows the exact logistics of the pony transport to Argentina, but it is definitely possible.
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Post by leeb on Oct 29, 2020 15:17:13 GMT -5
On a steamer? It would have been a few days each way to the US. Certainly no more than a week, which gives ample leeway for the 3 month sojourn. Cattle were being transported this way by the 1870s, Shetland ponies would be a breeze. 70 % of our cattle imports in the UK by 1900 came from the US and journey time in the 1890s was 6 days on average. Who knows the exact logistics of the pony transport to Argentina, but it is definitely possible. there was a Shetland pony stud in 1870 which supplied about 500 ponies a year for the States, there was no need for 'cowboys '. Just another brushy 'Tale '.
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Post by tboor74 on Oct 29, 2020 17:11:33 GMT -5
The first stud set up was the Londonderry Stud, which used the ponies in the coal mines in Durham (near where I live),they originally had a stud near the mines and brought ponies down there, then in the 1870s they acyually set up in the Shetlands (and in the 1890s the Stud Books appeared). The original studs were to ensure quality for the owners' mines, the latter ones to keep the breed pure and surviving. There are reports that so many ponies were being rounded up for export the breed could have disappeared. The first importers to the US used to visit the Shetlands to ensure the correct ponies were selected (US buyers wanted smaller, finer ponies, the UK buyers prefered stocker and hardier types). If buyers from the US (or their representatives - who knew what they were looking for) were travelling to the Shetlands to select ponies it's perfectly likely Argentinians would do the same.
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Post by mckinley412 on Nov 26, 2020 11:00:02 GMT -5
oh my...
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Post by Michael Helms on Aug 23, 2021 23:53:24 GMT -5
nmjames, I should have checked, but I thought Burns said Dudley and his men marched into town, my mistake. Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman responsible for the assassination of JFK. The Twin Towers were dropped in their footprint in freefall on 9/11/01 by jet airliners, despite the fact that jet fuel cannot burn at temps high enough to weaken modern steel girders (re: the bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building in the mid to late 1940s). However, miraculously one of the leading hijacker's wallet was found in almost pristine condition a few blocks from one of the destroyed Towers. Oswald's magic bullet passed through several bones, made magical twists and turns while changing directions, killing JFK and wounding Texas Gov. Connolly, yet was found lying on a stretcher in almost pristine condition. Never mind it has since been proven by sound experts that there were at least 4 shots recorded at Dealey Plaza that fateful day of November 3, 1963. ZERO steel structural buildings have been recorded to have caused catastrophic implosions around the world unless "pulled" by placing specific charges in vital areas designed to weaken and cause "footprint collapse" of said buildings anywhere in the world. Yep, the 'admirable' sheriff Pat Garrett killed "the Kid" in Pete Maxwell's bedroom on the night of July 14, 1881. Not a shred of doubt about itl CASE CLOSED!
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Post by chivato88 on Aug 24, 2021 4:09:12 GMT -5
nmjames, I should have checked, but I thought Burns said Dudley and his men marched into town, my mistake. Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman responsible for the assassination of JFK. The Twin Towers were dropped in their footprint in freefall on 9/11/01 by jet airliners, despite the fact that jet fuel cannot burn at temps high enough to weaken modern steel girders (re: the bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building in the mid to late 1940s). However, miraculously one of the leading hijacker's wallet was found in almost pristine condition a few blocks from one of the destroyed Towers. Oswald's magic bullet passed through several bones, made magical twists and turns while changing directions, killing JFK and wounding Texas Gov. Connolly, yet was found lying on a stretcher in almost pristine condition. Never mind it has since been proven by sound experts that there were at least 4 shots recorded at Dealey Plaza that fateful day of November 3, 1963. ZERO steel structural buildings have been recorded to have caused catastrophic implosions around the world unless "pulled" by placing specific charges in vital areas designed to weaken and cause "footprint collapse" of said buildings anywhere in the world. Yep, the 'admirable' sheriff Pat Garrett killed "the Kid" in Pete Maxwell's bedroom on the night of July 14, 1881. Not a shred of doubt about itl CASE CLOSED! Who died and made you king? You lost me on the words admirable "Oat" Garrett. Cheating on is wife with prostitutes,gambled all is money away, was drunk all the time, shooted is victims from ambush... What so admirable about that? And what the hell does it have to do with the twin towers and JFK? Not comparable
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2021 19:27:59 GMT -5
nmjames, I should have checked, but I thought Burns said Dudley and his men marched into town, my mistake. Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman responsible for the assassination of JFK. The Twin Towers were dropped in their footprint in freefall on 9/11/01 by jet airliners, despite the fact that jet fuel cannot burn at temps high enough to weaken modern steel girders (re: the bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building in the mid to late 1940s). However, miraculously one of the leading hijacker's wallet was found in almost pristine condition a few blocks from one of the destroyed Towers. Oswald's magic bullet passed through several bones, made magical twists and turns while changing directions, killing JFK and wounding Texas Gov. Connolly, yet was found lying on a stretcher in almost pristine condition. Never mind it has since been proven by sound experts that there were at least 4 shots recorded at Dealey Plaza that fateful day of November 3, 1963. ZERO steel structural buildings have been recorded to have caused catastrophic implosions around the world unless "pulled" by placing specific charges in vital areas designed to weaken and cause "footprint collapse" of said buildings anywhere in the world. Yep, the 'admirable' sheriff Pat Garrett killed "the Kid" in Pete Maxwell's bedroom on the night of July 14, 1881. Not a shred of doubt about itl CASE CLOSED! I agree with you that Oswald was no lone assassin and was a patsy, but I do not know what that has to do with this. I mean if you do not believe Garrett killed the Kid and that his story is as nonsense as Arlen Specter's the magic bullet theory then I agree, but I would just say that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2021 19:39:40 GMT -5
nmjames, I should have checked, but I thought Burns said Dudley and his men marched into town, my mistake. Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman responsible for the assassination of JFK. The Twin Towers were dropped in their footprint in freefall on 9/11/01 by jet airliners, despite the fact that jet fuel cannot burn at temps high enough to weaken modern steel girders (re: the bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building in the mid to late 1940s). However, miraculously one of the leading hijacker's wallet was found in almost pristine condition a few blocks from one of the destroyed Towers. Oswald's magic bullet passed through several bones, made magical twists and turns while changing directions, killing JFK and wounding Texas Gov. Connolly, yet was found lying on a stretcher in almost pristine condition. Never mind it has since been proven by sound experts that there were at least 4 shots recorded at Dealey Plaza that fateful day of November 3, 1963. ZERO steel structural buildings have been recorded to have caused catastrophic implosions around the world unless "pulled" by placing specific charges in vital areas designed to weaken and cause "footprint collapse" of said buildings anywhere in the world. Yep, the 'admirable' sheriff Pat Garrett killed "the Kid" in Pete Maxwell's bedroom on the night of July 14, 1881. Not a shred of doubt about itl CASE CLOSED! Are you being sarcastic about Garrett or serious? Did I misunderstand?
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Post by kerry on Aug 27, 2021 16:22:29 GMT -5
Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman responsible for the assassination of JFK. The Twin Towers were dropped in their footprint in freefall on 9/11/01 by jet airliners, despite the fact that jet fuel cannot burn at temps high enough to weaken modern steel girders (re: the bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building in the mid to late 1940s). However, miraculously one of the leading hijacker's wallet was found in almost pristine condition a few blocks from one of the destroyed Towers. Oswald's magic bullet passed through several bones, made magical twists and turns while changing directions, killing JFK and wounding Texas Gov. Connolly, yet was found lying on a stretcher in almost pristine condition. Never mind it has since been proven by sound experts that there were at least 4 shots recorded at Dealey Plaza that fateful day of November 3, 1963. ZERO steel structural buildings have been recorded to have caused catastrophic implosions around the world unless "pulled" by placing specific charges in vital areas designed to weaken and cause "footprint collapse" of said buildings anywhere in the world. Yep, the 'admirable' sheriff Pat Garrett killed "the Kid" in Pete Maxwell's bedroom on the night of July 14, 1881. Not a shred of doubt about itl CASE CLOSED! Are you being sarcastic about Garrett or serious? Did I misunderstand? PG conspired after the fact to obstruct justice and personally committed fraud by claiming the reward....without Pat - this site wouldn't exist?! The very real conspiracy involved Pat's planned murder by a number of people motivated by personal hatred revenge greed and even politics ...featuring a professional hit-man and a convenient patsy and buggy driver to lure the helpless PG to the exact point of his slaughter....subsequently cursory investigation and dismissal by the legal system - sounds familiar to a more modern and momentous conspiracy to me - some things never change.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2021 0:56:55 GMT -5
Are you being sarcastic about Garrett or serious? Did I misunderstand? PG conspired after the fact to obstruct justice and personally committed fraud by claiming the reward....without Pat - this site wouldn't exist?! The very real conspiracy involved Pat's planned murder by a number of people motivated by personal hatred revenge greed and even politics ...featuring a professional hit-man and a convenient patsy and buggy driver to lure the helpless PG to the exact point of his slaughter....subsequently cursory investigation and dismissal by the legal system - sounds familiar to a more modern and momentous conspiracy to me - some things never change. [br I know Garett did not kill Billy. I just don't know if the other guy is trying to say it is or is not ridiculous to believe he is a liar. I certainly believe PG was a pathological liar.
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Post by CP on Aug 29, 2021 13:01:20 GMT -5
I have been a BTK buff since Young Guns, not exactly history, but, it got me into researching the real history for a long time. I easily dismissed Brushy as being BTK,but, as time goes on I am very convinced he was telling the truth. The Geneva Pittmon bible proves he wasn't BTK,right? Well as I understand it Brushy's step grandson has a family bible that proves otherwise. I read the accounts of people who supported Brushy's claim and his own emotion in the statements that he made about his life. What would these people gain by supporting a liar? And, was Brushy an emmy nominated actor? No,his account and theirs is really compelling. I consider myself an armchair historian, so I keep myself open minded, but, I think those opposed to Brushy's claims need to examine his account and witnesses with fresh eyes. And consider this, the killing of BTK is the only killing of a famous outlaw that I have ever heard of that all law enforcement on the scene doubted at different points that they killed the right guy,and so did many FT Sumner residents and there are even apocryphal accounts of Garrett's own wife and daughter disputing BTK's death,there is no other case like this, it deserves re-examining. Thanks for letting me add to your thread, you guys are great!
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 29, 2021 13:16:04 GMT -5
Thanks for your comments CP. I just wanted to respond to the Geneva Pittmon thing. She probably did have a family Bible that showed Oliver Pleasant Roberts, her uncle, being born in 1879. But Brushy was "not" Oliver Pleasant Roberts. He was a cousin named William Henry Roberts (birth name). Yes, Geneva claimed to have known for a fact that Brushy was her uncle Oliver, but she could not have known that for a fact. She wasn't even born when Brushy returned to Texas and began living under the name Oliver Roberts. So if her parents and other relatives were calling him her Uncle Oliver, that was all she ever knew him as.
I'm glad you are enjoying our message board. I hope you'll consider becoming a member and visiting often.
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