|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Aug 4, 2016 14:30:06 GMT -5
I'm gonna think deeper on this and get back with you later. That part of Brushy's story is really confusing because he's traveling back in forth and only part of the story is in his own words and half of is being described by the author. It had been 80 years prior and I think he was already bad with dates. The story as told by Brushy and the author, (not just Brushy) doesn't really allow him time to be at the Antrim wedding. He says he was with Mrs. Antrim a few months before she died and that's fine because I've heard people say he was there longer but people say all kinds of stuff when it comes to this guy, at least four people claim they were his teacher, people knew him there, and in New York, people knew Mrs. Antrim years after she died, etc. etc. I was kind of teasing when I said, "Good job, we did it." But I kind of wasn't, too. It's definitely worth taking a look at.
|
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 4, 2016 20:41:51 GMT -5
mckinley412,
" It had been 80 years prior and I think he was already bad with dates."
You are assuming that Brushy Bill was born in 1859. You are half right, for Brushy Bill was bad with dates. He forgot he was born in 1879.
|
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Aug 4, 2016 21:13:26 GMT -5
lol. I just cringe sometimes when I see you are the one that responded to my post. lol. I'm trying to look at it from his point of view, like innocent until proven guilty, which is something no one does in this country anymore. Maybe he was telling the truth. Maybe when people like Roy Haws want to skip facial recognition and handwriting, and their book is selling on the front desk of the Ft. Sumner Museum, maybe we should ask.... why not look at handwriting or facial recognition when you really don't have anything else to go on? Maybe face comparison or handwriting could shed light on the subject, it's physical evidence or something like that. We'll see.
|
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 4, 2016 23:37:40 GMT -5
"Maybe face comparison or handwriting could shed light on the subject, it's physical evidence or something like that. "
Photoshop works wonders.
|
|
|
|
Post by Guest on Sept 24, 2016 15:31:16 GMT -5
"It is obvious that Brushy Bill was never in New Mexico when he said that Celsa Gutierrez, Sabal's sister, was one of his sweethearts and wanted to go to Mexico with him. Celsa was the wife, not the sister, of Sabal Guiterrez." Right, because every knows that a prerequisite for entering New Mexico is to get that right. Great point. |
|
|
|
Post by Hunter on Jul 4, 2018 23:54:31 GMT -5
According to Brushy Bill's account for all the names used by Billy the Kid throughout his life.
ROBERTS - DUNN - BONNEY - MCCARTY - ANTRIM
William Henry Roberts AKA Billy the Kid was born in 1859, at Buffalo Gap, Texas.
William's father was James Henry ROBERTS, born near Lexington, Kentucky in 1832.
(I've seen John Henry Roberts as his name too)
William's mother was Mary Adeline DUNN, born in abt. 1837, also near Lexington, Kentucky.
Mary Adeline had a sister named Caroline DUNN.
The DUNN sisters father was William DUNN and their mother was a Cherokee Wife. DUNN was the Cherokee Wife's SECOND husband.
The Cherokee Wife's FIRST husband was BONNEY and they had a daughter named Catherine BONNEY.
Catherine BONNEY was a half sister to Mary and Caroline DUNN
James Henry ROBERTS married Mary Adeline DUNN in Buffalo Gap, Texas.
James Henry went to fight in the Civil War and left Mary Adeline home in Buffalo Gap, with their son, William Henry ROBERTS.
According to Brushy Bill, after his mother Mary died in 1862 and while his father was still away at war, Catherine MCCARTY traveled to Buffalo Gap and took William Henry ROBERTS, who was about 3 years old to live with her and her son Joseph MCCARTY. Catherine didn't want young William Henry's father to know where his son was if and when he should come home from the Civil War, (I believe I read somewhere that James Henry was abusive) so she changed his name William Henry MCCARTY and raised him like a son, with her son Joseph.
Catherine BONNEY married Michael MCCARTY (FIRST husband)
Of that union, they had a son named Joseph MCCARTY.
Michael MCCARTY died in the Civil War. The MCCARTY family of Catherine, sons Joseph and William then moved to Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Then in 1873, Catherine BONNEY MCCARTY married her second husband William H. ANTRIM in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
William ANTRIM and wife, Catherine moved to Silver City, New Mexico with Joseph MCCARTY and William Henry MCCARTY.
Brushy Bill may have told Pat Garrett and probably others that he was born in New York City. It was a habit of many men in the West to claim names and hometowns other than their own, to hide their origins.
Back to the father of William Henry ROBERTS, James ROBERTS.
James Henry had a broher named Henry Oliver ROBERTS. Their father was Benjamin ROBERTS.
Henry Oliver ROBERTS married Catherine DUNN, full sister of Mary Adeline DUNN.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hunter on Jul 4, 2018 23:59:45 GMT -5
* OOPS ... Henry Oliver ROBERTS married CAROLINE DUNN, full sister to Mary Adeline DUNN.
|
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Jul 5, 2018 1:56:50 GMT -5
Hunter, Bonney was not a family name. Do research. There are are many authors with fake information. Best thing you can do is start reading this site. Or start asking me questions.
|
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 5, 2018 11:15:05 GMT -5
Hunter,
mckinley412 is correct. Many authors have published “information” not supported by research or credible, verifiable facts. The alleged genealogy of Brushy Bill Roberts published by W C Jameson is as phony as a $3 bill.
Henry Oliver Roberts did marry Caroline Dunn. They were the parents of Martha Vada Roberts Heath and Samantha Bell Roberts, Nothing else in the published genealogy chart of Brushy Bill has been verified with credible evidence.
|
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 5, 2018 11:42:23 GMT -5
mckinley412,
I admire your dedication to the search for facts, and your familiarity with books about Brushy Bill and Billy the Kid. Holding authors to a higher standard may be an unobtainable goal. Erroneous claims and assumptions in published books can be identified. Research, footnotes, sources, and indices might improve the quality of future books. “The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid” is an example of a poorly researched book with many assumptions and mistakes.
I have found no credible evidence that supports Brushy Bill’s claim that he was Billy the Kid. He did know many facts about events and characters in the Lincoln County war, very similar to those published in “The Saga of Billy the Kid”.
Authors, in searching for supporting evidence, have published inadequately researched information.
Morrison & Sonnichsen, and other authors, included affidavits of Robert E Lee, Martile Able, and DeWitt Travis as evidence that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid. None of them had seen William Bonney prior to 1881, and were not capable of identifying Brushy Bill as Billy the Kid.
Martile said, “Both she and her husband had been Billy’s friends.” Not likely. Martelia Bilberry was 9 years old and living in Lampasas, Texas, in 1880.
Tunstill, in “Billy the Kid and Me Were The Same”, created a timeline that showed Brushy Bill returned from Mexico in 1883, and stayed a few days with Mr. and Mrs. John C. Able in El Paso. Not possible. John and Martile were married in 1898.
Jameson published an unverifiable genealogy chart of Brushy Bill’s ancestry. He stated Brushy Bill was never known by the alias of Oliver P. Roberts. Not true. (1920 census, WWI registration card). Jameson accused William A. Tunstill of mistakenly identifying William Henry Roberts as Oliver P. Roberts. No supporting evidence was presented.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hunter on Jul 5, 2018 14:04:35 GMT -5
Hunter, Bonney was not a family name. Do research. There are are many authors with fake information. Best thing you can do is start reading this site. Or start asking me questions. Thank you so much! But I did find this on Family Search.  ![]() |
|
|
|
Post by Hunter on Jul 5, 2018 15:10:05 GMT -5
Hunter, Bonney was not a family name. Do research. There are are many authors with fake information. Best thing you can do is start reading this site. Or start asking me questions. Thank you so much! But I did find this on Family Search. ![]() I don't have a membership to Ancestry . com. If anyone does and wants to look at this: All Family Trees results for Katherine Ann Bonney |
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 5, 2018 17:25:25 GMT -5
Hunter,
Anyone can post any information, or misinformation, on genealogy forums. That information should be regarded as no more than a clue. It must be confirmed by a second source to be credible.
Information found in family trees varies from trash to treasure. Some posters are competent genealogists.
Genealogy sources can be rated for accuracy, best to worst, and none are without error.
Personal knowledge of immediate family members (usually correct)
State vital records (birth, death, marriage)
Social Security Death Index
Census records
Land records
Cemetery records
Bible records entered at the time of the event
Family histories
Bible records entered long after the event
Family trees
Hearsay
|
|
|
|
Post by Hunter on Jul 6, 2018 18:24:25 GMT -5
Hunter, Anyone can post any information, or misinformation, on genealogy forums. That information should be regarded as no more than a clue. It must be confirmed by a second source to be credible. Information found in family trees varies from trash to treasure. Some posters are competent genealogists. Genealogy sources can be rated for accuracy, best to worst, and none are without error. Personal knowledge of immediate family members (usually correct) State vital records (birth, death, marriage) Social Security Death Index Census records Land records Cemetery records Bible records entered at the time of the event Family histories Bible records entered long after the event Family trees Hearsay Well, if you even looked at it, you will see that there are 3 sources, 4 sources, etc. for the information. I don't have an account with them, so I can't check any of it out. Yes, I've worked on genealogy for many years, researching my family and my husband's family. Incidentally, hubby only knew his grandfather's name, but after many stumbles, I took his family back to Scotland. I got stuck because a person on the Internet insisted that they came from Germany. I found that to be wrong, that a maternal ancestor was indeed from Germany, but the paternal ancestor went back to Scotland. The German lady spoke nothing but German, taught her children German, so it passed down through the family that they were from Germany. WRONG. Once I got past that, it was a piece of cake. SO ... Yes, I know all about Genealogy, Facts, and Research. Thank you very much. |
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Jul 9, 2018 23:31:53 GMT -5
Edward's book had some theories in it and he admits some are wrong now and he revises it and he has things in it that are stated as facts but he can't give the source. Nmjames has things like this, I do, and we have to give some people the benefit of the doubt. It's because there are sources from the living source who do not want things shared. I don't like it but what can you do? I don't know of anything groundbreaking that proved Brushy was Billy but there is certainly a lot of stuff out there that isn't getting shared.
|
|
