|
|
Post by markmak on May 11, 2015 21:36:35 GMT -5
hahaha Well, Mr. Land already spoke about this pic in Jan 4th. Wayne Land," The kid on the far right does not look to be 16 years old. Maybe 10 or 12. Too short to be 16. Unless you mean the far right on the back row?" ps, GO WAYNE GO!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by 44colt on May 17, 2015 21:16:41 GMT -5
This guy is very confused. That may be a photo of Oliver Pleasant Roberts but its not Brushy Bill. In my book there is a photo of Brushy Bill with the Rough Riders in 1898 and he is not a teenager. He is a full grown man.
|
|
|
|
Post by markmak on May 19, 2015 9:19:35 GMT -5
in your book, Colt? You have a book? Or in "your minds eye" type of phrase? May I have copy? I have seen that picture! Pretty cool!
|
|
|
|
Post by 44colt on May 24, 2015 2:43:53 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 21:03:07 GMT -5
books.google.com/books?id=flMCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA782&lpg=PA782&dq=Cyclone+cheyenne+wyoming+1889&source=bl&ots=cQ9T-_Y5DD&sig=unMgw3DKqlPqAFWqlZG6QCC49UA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NW9mVcrDCKbdsASR_4LQCw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Cyclone%20cheyenne%20wyoming%201889&f=falseOften times HORSES are easy to track, rather than people because they are an investment. It is shown here that a horse named Delva was foaled in 1889. The horse's father was CYCLONE. The breeder of Delva was a man named G.B. Goodell of CHEYENNE, WYOMING. He traded the horse to F.G. Hoxie of Ogala, Nebraska. CYCLONE, apparently was the father of another horse named Cyrene. It cross referenced to page 886 of another book. books.google.com/books?id=_blOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA476&lpg=PA476&dq=Cyclone+cheyenne+wyoming+1889&source=bl&ots=5tuhk9S0la&sig=uOxGyyPV7m5xX2XO2Jh28HvD16Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NW9mVcrDCKbdsASR_4LQCw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Cyclone%20cheyenne%20wyoming%201889&f=falseThe horse CYCLONE is also mentioned in this book as being the father of another horse. Apparently this horse Cyclone was in high demand and had to of won alot of races. When looking up G.B. Goodell I found him listed in a Brand Book. books.google.com/books?id=Qj5OAAAAYAAJ&pg=PT16&lpg=PT16&dq=G.B.+Goodell+cheyenne+wyoming&source=bl&ots=FZsDmo4h1g&sig=F_Nvegp1m8X2KSVwRjHzBvR9oxY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gnJmVe7cO4KfoQSF1oGADQ&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=G.B.%20Goodell%20cheyenne%20wyoming&f=falseSo the horse did exist, had an owner and there is a paper trail to that horse. Oh, and it's the same horse BECAUSE this was in 1889. And G.B. Goodell was well off financially because he HIMSELF is listed in several cattle books registered as owner of several prize bulls, horses and swines. This man was no stranger to races, not by a long shot, because he HIMSELF entered into a Trot Race in Kentucky with a horse named Bravo. archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/KYLEWIS-NEWSPAPERS/2000-10/0970517792This man bought horses from all over the country and operated in such places as Laramie. He was a stockholder (also) in a mining company in Cheyenne, Wyoming. This man was involved in ALOT of things---- is it of any doubt that he would of dealt with a man like Thomas Waggoner who was also considerably rich? books.google.com/books?id=V-4RAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=G.B.+Goodell+cheyenne+wyoming+Cyclone&source=bl&ots=OcLjBfmKDK&sig=bsDKqDHjTXcKjgUZKnbgPyUJh4s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=23RmVeCTDKvmsATN7oH4Aw&ved=0CC0Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=G.B.%20Goodell%20cheyenne%20wyoming%20Cyclone&f=falseFor more information on the horse... and what races it could have won.... we would have to find old editions of Wallace's American Trotting Register. And luckily for us several volumes of this is online in archives. archive.org/stream/wallacesamerica00assogoog#page/n635/mode/2up/search/cycloneFrom what I am able to gather this horse was racing and breeding as early as 1882. Which figures in with the old Fort Worth newspapers chronicling a California horse named Cyclone that won races in places like Montana. Which would mean the horse in those articles is indeed the horse mentioned throughout all of these sources, who was bred out by G.B. Goodell and others. Because this horse was in around Cheyenne, Wyoming in 1889.... well, that only helps confirm Brushy's story, now doesnt it? books.google.com/books?id=BN1IAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA997&lpg=PA997&dq=Horse+Cyclone+Trot+Race&source=bl&ots=XjfNghy0ug&sig=7ulA_TKYjyXu8lFEYhdjp_HTFjs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d3dmVYGpM82wsASyy4GoBQ&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Horse%20Cyclone%20Trot%20Race&f=falseAnd according to this book of Wallace's Monthly (Volume 19) it speaks at great length of this horse, saying that it broke a record in 1885 in Kentucky. And here it is mentioned that in Montana, the horse Cyclone won a race on August 29th, 1889. So the horse WAS in the general vicinity. books.google.com/books?id=WrmELpjI9CAC&pg=PA856&lpg=PA856&dq=Horse+Cyclone+Trot+Race+1889&source=bl&ots=rSM5PUjCHQ&sig=_vtbQgHsP-MLR7hTucJHBSQ43UU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HHlmVa2aEKXbsASm2oLQCg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Horse%20Cyclone%20Trot%20Race%201889&f=falseAnd according to The Stock Farm (volumes 3-4) of the 1880's it mentions that an artist named Mr. Alexander did a portrait of the horse Cyclone. Apparently, the horse "retired" by the mid-late 1880's. What is INTERESTING though is that a "Cyclone Wikes" was foaled by Cyclone in 1886, as well as "Cyclone Junior". books.google.com/books?id=mpYXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA312&lpg=PA312&dq=cyclone+horse+1885+kentucky&source=bl&ots=-AKJOg6Ycn&sig=a-52B36XUEYri3RNzORziPxioQE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GXtmVbzVJcrLsAS21IGwDA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=cyclone%20horse%201885%20kentucky&f=false books.google.com/books?id=ALkmAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA188&lpg=PA188&dq=cyclone+horse+1885+kentucky&source=bl&ots=el7dzRLDxX&sig=DnjHlifnzxCVvNmk_5dwlCtnpgg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GXtmVbzVJcrLsAS21IGwDA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=cyclone%20horse%201885%20kentucky&f=false
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 17:35:18 GMT -5
Btw, dumb Q, wasn't the Buffalo Soldiers... black?  |
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on May 31, 2015 17:17:39 GMT -5
"Btw, dumb Q, wasn't the Buffalo Soldiers... black? "
Rufus,
I believe the reason they were called Buffalo Soldiers was because they were African American. The officers might have been Caucasian, but the enlisted personnel were African American. I'm quite surprised that Daniel identified Brushy Bill as an African American. It's even more amazing that Daniel was able to the William H. Roberts as Brushy Bill, since there were more that a thousand men named William Roberts in the 1900 census who born after1858 and before 1875 and could have served in the Spanish American war.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2015 18:48:46 GMT -5
That's why I want to reach out to someone who happens to have the medal in question that Roberts had. IF it is indeed the genuine article, the name on the medal has a paper trail, possibly photographs of said person, etc. that way it would be easier to track. Also, a true expert could tell it the medal was tampered with in any way shape or form (adding/subtracting words on the medal, etc) with a simple electron microscope. If it proves genuine, it means one of two things: Roberts was telling the truth about being in the Spanish-American War, or he came into ownership of said medal in later life.
|
|
|
|
Post by 44colt on Jun 6, 2015 23:53:17 GMT -5
"Btw, dumb Q, wasn't the Buffalo Soldiers... black? " Rufus, I believe the reason they were called Buffalo Soldiers was because they were African American. The officers might have been Caucasian, but the enlisted personnel were African American. I'm quite surprised that Daniel identified Brushy Bill as an African American. It's even more amazing that Daniel was able to the William H. Roberts as Brushy Bill, since there were more that a thousand men named William Roberts in the 1900 census who born after1858 and before 1875 and could have served in the Spanish American war. This is absurd. I never identified Brushy Bill as an African American. You obviously have not read my book. |
|
|
|
Post by ruidosoman on Jul 27, 2016 22:14:10 GMT -5
SO a guy who claims to be great-great nephew of Brushy Bill Roberts named Roy Haws wrote a book very recently," Brushy Bill Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale" He has this picture in it. Thought's for anyone good with matching pics. I believe Brushy to be Billy the Kid. If that is Brushy Bill at about 16 years of age, he was a midget. I only grew another inch and a half between the ages of 16 and 21 years of age. |
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 28, 2016 14:49:51 GMT -5
"Post by 44colt on May 17, 2015 at 7:16pm
This guy is very confused. That may be a photo of Oliver Pleasant Roberts but its not Brushy Bill. In my book there is a photo of Brushy Bill with the Rough Riders in 1898 and he is not a teenager. He is a full grown man. "
Daniel, contrary to your assertion that there is a photo of Brushy Bill in your book, there is no proof offered that supports your opinion.
It is also of interest that on page 77 of your book that you suggest that William H. Roberts, a Buffalo soldier, would seem to confirm that Brushy Bill was telling the truth about his service in the Rough Riders. The Buffalo soldiers were African Americans, but officers were caucasian.
|
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 28, 2016 15:05:28 GMT -5
markmak
"SO a guy who claims to be great-great nephew of Brushy Bill Roberts named Roy Haws wrote a book very recently," Brushy Bill Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale" He has this picture in it. Thought's for anyone good with matching pics. I believe Brushy to be Billy the Kid."
Roy Haws is in fact a great-grandson of Martha Roberts Heath, identified by Brushy Bill as his cousin. Census, birth, and death records prove his relationship to Martha Heath. Martha Roberts Heath was in fact the half-sister of Oliver P. Roberts. Brushy Bill said he married Mollie Brown, and a Van Zandt county marriage certificate confirms that Mollie Brown married Oliver Roberts. Brushy Bill was Oliver P. Roberts.
|
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 28, 2016 16:41:30 GMT -5
"This is absurd. I never identified Brushy Bill as an African American. You obviously have not read my book."
Daniel, you obviously have done no meaningful research.
The only convincing part of Brushy Bill’s story is his fairly accurate description of characters and events that transpired during the Lincoln County war. His description follows very closely the story told by Walter Noble Burns in “The Saga of Billy the Kid”, published in 1926. Did he have a photographic memory and recite that story for Morrison? It is obvious that Brushy Bill was never in New Mexico when he said that Celsa Gutierrez, Sabal's sister, was one of his sweethearts and wanted to go to Mexico with him. Celsa was the wife, not the sister, of Sabal Guiterrez.
A single source of information is seldom credible. No claim made by Brushy Bill is credible unless verified by a reliable source. These are examples:
Brushy Bill said he married Mollie Brown. A Van Zandt county marriage record proves that Mollie Brown married Oliver Roberts.
Brushy Bill said he married Loutecia Ballard. Ollie Roberts signed her Van Zandt county death certificate in 1944.
Brushy Bill said he married Melinda Allison. A Hamilton county marriage record proves Malinda E. Allison married O. L. Roberts.
Brushy Bill said he had a ranch in Arkansas near Oklahoma. Arkansas Warranty deeds prove O. P. Roberts and Mollie Roberts bought and sold 80 acres in Sevier County, Arkansas in 1918.
Where did you find credible evidence that Billy the Kid was alive after July 1881? That is an absolute requirement if Brushy Bill is BtK.
Where did you find credible evidence that Brushy Bill Roberts and Oliver P. Roberts were two different men? Brushy Bill Roberts married Mollie Brown as Oliver Roberts, and signed his WWI draft registration card as Oliver Pleasant Roberts. He said he was born 26 August 1879. That is the same day that Geneva Roberts Pittmon, niece of Oliver P. Roberts, said her uncle, Oliver P. Roberts was born.
Where did you find credible evidence that J. H. “Wild Henry” Roberts existed?
Where did you find credible evidence that Mary Adeline Dunn existed?
Where did you find credible evidence that his half-brother, James Roberts, existed?
Where did you find credible evidence that his cousin, Ollie, existed? Brushy Bill said he returned Ollie’s belongings to his parents in Sulphur Springs, Texas. Did you know that the parents of Oliver P. Roberts, Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson, lived in Hopkins County at that time, and that Sulphur Springs is the county seat?
Did your research reveal that Brushy Bill’s stepmother, Elizabeth Ferguson, was the mother of Oliver P. Roberts?
Did your research reveal that Brushy Bill’s cousin, Martha Roberts Heath, was the half-sister of Oliver P. Roberts?
|
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Aug 4, 2016 0:31:44 GMT -5
 Speaking of Hopkins County and Elizabeth here is a record I found earlier. If Brushy really was born in 1861 as he said when interviewed by Walker in Jesse James the Outlaw then his age during the 1870 census would be 8 since his birthday is the last day of the year. Also in this record the father has the correct year of birth. This is probably the real Brushy right here. Good job guys, we did it. |
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Aug 4, 2016 10:03:01 GMT -5
Wow! Awesome find. I do notice it lists James' birthplace as Alabama. And in 1870, if Brushy's story is true, he wasn't living with his father and would not likely have shown up on the census?
|
|
