Brushy Bill - AKA- Billy The Kid

[44colt]

I think this is fascinating. "Zebra Dun" is a song written about 1890 about a horse that was an "outlaw" horse which means "untrainable".

Here are the lyrics from Wikipedia:

"Now old Dunny was an outlaw, he'd grown so awful wildHe could paw the moon down, he could jump a mile;Old Dunny stood right still there, like as he didn't knowTill the stranger had him saddled and ready for to go.When the stranger hit the saddle, then old Dun he quit the earth,And started travelin' upwards for all that he was worth,A-yellin' and a-squealin' and a-having wall-eyed fitsHis front feet perpendicular, his hind feet in the bits."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_Dun

Now here is what Brushy says he did in 1893 "On the third day I rode Zebra Dun. Zebra Dun was an outlaw when he was shipped there. I asked them to raise the bet and I would ride him, I would. I told them I was supposed to ride him anyway, but would like to have it sweetened. After I stepped off, I put a bridle on him and hopped on and rode him with a bridle. I had taught them Argentinians to ride in the slick and to ride with a surcingle. Now, they wanted me to ride him with a surcingle, which I did."

Sounds like Brushy rode and broke the original Zebra Dun horse that the song was written about. He mentions this in passing along with the names of the other horses he road. Funny he uses the same term "outlaw" as the song.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9ShEseNbXI 

[Wayne Land]

Colt44, again thank you. I don't know how you found all this stuff but I sure hope the "naysayers" are reading these articles. Fantastic stuff!!

[MissyS]

Wow, I haven't posted in awhile and I see great new info, I want to add a little tidbit of info I read in the book " The Kid, Billy the Kid " by Bill Rakocy, this book is a kinda gathering of newspaper articles and drawings, on pg 93 there's a copy of a article that is interesting and Fort Worth kinda ties in with what I'v been reading here, this story was supposed to have appeared in an El Paso newspaper about a woman in 1926, an El Paso reporter told about , It was printed in a column called "Around Here " by a Bill Phillips in 1950 entitled "Is Billy The Kid Still Alive? In 1926 it says a reporter(unnamed) was introduced by a Government official, then under suspicion to a woman who said she knew where Billy The Kid was living, she told of harboring the Kid on her ranch after the framed gunfight, her husband had sent the Kid money for years, she wouldn't give the exact location but said the Kid lived somewhere 200 miles of El Paso, she said Billy feared revenge from relatives of some of the men he killed so his location at the time is secret, she withheld her name also, and her husband would be very angry if she gave any info about the kid's location. The reporter said her and her husband were ranchers, anyway she went on to tell of a conversation she overheard between Garrett and the Kid, on that night , quoted.. " Billy here is 1000", said Garrett, "Take it and get out of the country as fast as you can, we will fake a killing and bury someone tonight, so folks will think I killed you". "Pat" said Billy , "I don't need that much, I'll take 25 if you have it that will get me far away" Garrett then had Billy promise not to carry a gun for 20 years. " I Promise" Billy said, and shook hands and rode away in the night, then she went on to say Garrett ran into the house fired two shots with aid from another man in on it and supposedly hurried a body from the house before his sweetheart or anyone else saw it, and was buried in a grave already dug and waiting, she also said in 1924 the grave had been dug into and no bones were found, she said Billy later visited his sweetheart who had married , and also visited his sister in Fort Worth, and that he was in El Paso sometime between 1916 and 1926. He was living under another name and was respected in the little community he called home. I condensed this , as it is long, well because there was no names the article can't be proven to be genuine?, and this isn't the first time I'v read Billy had a sister. Anyway it's interesting nonetheless.

[MissyS]

BTW, I discovered this photogragh on this site the photo is entitled Billy Fox and Billy The Kid , both holding rifles?? I am confused this cant be the Kid he looks too tall and looks to have a mustache? Don't know anything about it? I'm posting it to see if anyone does know?

texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth38465/

[Wayne Land]

I've also read before that there was a sister. Of course she would have to be a half sister born to James Henry Roberts after Mary Adeline died. If I'm not terribly mistaken (and I might be), the lady who runs the Billy The Kid museum in Hamilton, TX and claimed to be related to Brushy/Billy said she was descended from Brushy's half sister. I visited there back in 2006 and spoke with her. It's one of those times when I was so interested in what she had to say that I was certain I would remember the details and then proceeded to forget most of it in pretty short order. It was a busy year as I was traveling the country in an RV.

I'm going to see if I can contact her and get a refresher course. Thanks for sharing the above story. I wish we had some names but I suspect the lady might have been Martile Abel.

[Wayne Land]

That's an interesting photo too. Other than the mustache of course, the fellow has some traits in common with Billy. Maybe it's Billy Barlow ?? (LOL)

[nmjames]

Wayne said: I sure hope the "naysayers" are readin.

I am reading and am still a "naysayer". In the article about the Texas Kid they state, he was not handsome,
he was youngish, towheaded whose albino eyes seemed hopeleasly weak. To me that's not Billy the Kid.

Now for Cyclone, I thought Brushy got that out of the 1941 book The Black Stallion. (I'm not serious). I would have to see where the Hugo Kid rode a horse Cyclone in 1889 in Cheyenne, Wyoming. I have looked for it before but couldn't find it so I hope you can.

Now for W.T. Waggoner. I feel anyone from the area where Brushy lived has heard of the Waggoners'. My great-grand-parents are buried in Decatur and I know a little about the Waggoners. If you ever go to Decatur, TX., go by and see the Waggoner House. Brushy had to have stories to tell. Show me where Tom Waggoner gave him the money to ride. Even if he did, that wouldn't make him Billy the Kid from New Mexico.

James H. Roberts - I have looked up about every James H. Roberts and had found the one from Kentucky. If I remember, he remained in Kentucky and died there. I have all that filed away at this time. If you find him and his wife was a Mary A. Roberts and everything fits, I'm sure you will let me know.

MissyS, I'm going to put this with this post if it's OK. Since you have the book by Mr. Rakocy, go to page 6 to the 1923 story by Frank Coe. Look on page nine and tell Wayne what the last line says.

Where did you find your book? I treasure mine as I got it from Sheriff Peppins grandson and he was friends with Mr. Rakocy. He got it from Mr. Rakocy and it has notes in the book. Sadly, the grandson passed away last year.

[MissyS]

Quote:

MissyS, I'm going to put this with this post if it's OK. Since you have the book by Mr. Rakocy, go to page 6 to the 1923 story by Frank Coe. Look on page nine and tell Wayne what the last line says.

Where did you find your book? I treasure mine as I got it from Sheriff Peppins grandson and he was friends with Mr. Rakocy. He got it from Mr. Rakocy and it has notes in the book. Sadly, the grandson passed away last year.

nmjames, The last line on pg. 9 for Wayne is..
Billy The Kid's body lies today in the old military graveyard at Fort Sumner, without a headstone to mark his grave.

I read pg. 6-9 by Frank Coe, last night, he did state that Billy had often spoke of his mother, and that he told him he was born in New York City, which alot of books say the State of New York, not the city, and was educated there, and his family moved to Denver when he was 12, his father died while living there. Puzzling to me why Billy didn't mention to him of living in Kansas? Catherine was supposed to of had property there and sold it before moving to Silver City according to many written stories, nor did he mention Silver City? Maybe Frank forgot to mention it or Billy didn't think it important to tell Frank Coe? Or he never lived there? I thought his version of what happened the night of the shooting was interesting in that Billy going to the house to get a key to the meat house, and not that the meat was hanging by the porch or somewhere in the house as told by many. He said the two deputies were so dumbfounded when Billy walked up that they couldn't speak, finally one said "No Harm" after Billy asked them quen es? To me this meant they must have known he was The Kid, according to this article Frank Coe believed Billy died and was buried that night. Did he ever change his mind later??
I also treasure my book, I love the artwork by Rakocy, he did a good job on this book , alot of drawings and alot of time spent compiling all the articles and stories, I bought my copy from Abe Books online, I wish it was a hardback, Rakocy also has other books about the Southwest. I don't know if theyre like this one? Your copy is a true treasure, guard it well.

[MissyS]

I wanted to add this question about Frank Coe, I don't believe he would lie about Billy unless it was to protect his friend, could he have lied about him being buried to protect him, knowing he was alive, but wanted others to think he was buried? And did Billy lie to him about where he was born and where he was raised? Like he lied to the census takers? There's just alot of evidence that Brushy could be Billy?

[nmjames]

Hello MissyS,

Thanks for the post. I don't know why Frank didn't know more about where Billy was from. I don't know if Billy ever really talked about everything or if Frank remembered everyting. If you notice, they started writing about it in the 1920s and may have forgot or didn't feel it was important. Frank nor George were in Fort Sumner when Billy was killed but I have been told that they always thought Billy was killed. (Brushy sure didn't know anything about Billy's early life. I don't think he even knew that Billy's name was Henry McCarty.)

As you can tell, I do not believe Brushy was Billy the Kid. I already knew a lot about the Lincoln Co. War through research. I have lived in New Mexico all my life and have had a place near Lincoln for over 20 years. I have met many differnt family members of people that where in the Lincoln Co. War and some do feel that Billy lived past 1881 but most do not. I know what they tell me but I do not want to post it on any site.

Wayne will not agree but to me the best book to prove Brushy was not Billy the Kid is Morrison's book. If you study the Lincoln Co. War and dig through documents as I have, Brushy didn't really know that much and got most everything wrong. Now in saying this, I am talking about before 1881. To me Billy was killed on July 14, 1881. I don't really care what Brushy did after 1881 but I do look into his statements.

I have also researched Brushy and J. Frank Dalton. To me J. Frank Dalton was the one that came up with most of Brushy's stories. I think most of it came out of the book by Walter Burns. I have researched Mr. Dalton also and have files full on information on him. And no I don't think he was Jesse James.

Keep on researching one can get hooked on it, I know I did.

[Wayne Land]

"(Brushy sure didn't know anything about Billy's early life. I don't think he even knew that Billy's name was Henry McCarty.) "

One could argue that the reason Brushy never mentioned Billy's early life as "Henry McCarty" was because that wasn't Billy's real name. And the same point of view can be taken regarding other knowledge of the alleged early life of Billy.

Question: If Billy The Kid's real name was Henry McCarty, where did he get the name "Billy". Also, where did Brushy get the name "Bill", long before he ever came out claiming to be Billy The Kid? To me, it makes more sense that Billy's real first name was "William". I've posed this question before and the answer I always get is something to the effect that the name "Bill" was a sort of universally applied nickname as in James Butler Hickock being called Wild "Bill". And that may be correct but the more logical explanation is that the real name was indeed "William".

[MissyS]

Didn't Brushy say that his early life he was being raised on a ranch with his father learning to care and ride horses untill his aunt took him to live with her? I thought I read this somewhere? I have to find the lost interview book to be sure? I do believe the different accounts of the eye color, hair etc.. that people describe may be explained by my belief that Billy The Kid could have been confused with Billy Wilson, I had posted this on another thread about the similarities? And that photo I posted earlier of Billy Fox and Billy The Kid, to me Billy The Kid looks like Billy Wilson in that photo from some photos of him. Billy Wilson did have a mustache later.

[nmjames]

First to Wayne,

I'm not going to go all the way back to Indiana or Kansas but in 1873 when William Henry Harrison Antrim married Catherine McCarty in Santa Fe, New Mexico, Henry McCarty and Joseph (Joe) McCarty signed as witnesses. When they reached Silver City, Henry was known as Henry Antrim and Kid Antrim. In Silver City, William H. Antrim was know as Uncle Bill Antrim.

When Billy showed up in Arizona, he was called Henry Antrim and "Kid". When Billy shot Frank Cahill, Cahill wrote a deathbed statemnt, in part he stated, I had some trouble with Henry Antrim (SP - their spelling), otherwise known as Kid.

After Billy left Arizona, a C.A. Carpenter passed the bandits on the road through Cooke's Canyon and later informed authorities that he had recognized one of them: Henry Antrim. Later in October, Kid Antrim helped himself to a fine-looking pony, belonging to the daughter of Sheriff Mariano Barela.

When Billy showed up in Seven Rivers they called him Kid. Soon he started going by the name Billy Bonney and later he started using Whilliam H. Bonney. During the Dudley Court of Inquiry, it states, William Bonney, a witness being duly sworn, testified as following.

Q. by Recorder. Whis is your name and place of residence? Answer: My name is William Bonney, I reside in Lincoln.

Could he have started using William because his step fathers name was William also I think William or Bill is another name used for Henry. No one knows where the name Bonney came from. Some think he read books by a Bonney and liked the name. Others feel he read stories about a lady Pirate by the name of Bonney. Others feel he may have had kin by the name of Bonney but no one has ever found where it comes in. Not even in Brushy's line do I find the name Bonney.

In 1915, William H. Antrim on a form to the Department of The Interior states: His wife's name is Catherine Antrim. She was married to McCarty dat not known. Died in New York City, date not known. No other marriages.

Now where did Brushy Bill start using the name Billy. Some say he had a Uncle that used the name Brushy Bill and he stared using it because he liked Brushy. In reading about Billy the Kid I don't think Brushy ever saw the name Henry McCarty and only saw Billy the Kid or William H. Bonney. He had to use the name William H. Bonney to be Billy the Kid. In a newpaper interview. Brushy stated that he had know J. Frank Dalton since the age of ten. I don't know when J. Frank Dalton and Brushy started saying Oliver Roberts was Billy the Kid. Can you show me any where Brushy used the name William H. Roberts before he met Morrison?

[nmjames]

MissyS

I think you have it a little backward. Brushy states that when his mother died in 1862, Mrs. Roberts' half sister, Mrs. Kathrine Ann (Kathleen) Bonney came down from Indian Terriory and took him away. I think Brushy states he was in Silver City in 1870 and that's wrong. He left in 1872 and again that's wrong and went back to Texas to see his people.

Note: Joseph Antrim states he was born in 1863 in New York. 1880 census Silverton, CO.

[44colt]

Sept 12, 2014 19:56:07 GMT -5 nmjames said:

Q. Can you show me any where Brushy used the name William H. Roberts before he met Morrison?

    Yes, when he says he used it with the Rough Riders and where he is listed by that name.  There is even a picture of him among the Bronc Busters.