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Post by DanJohno on Jun 7, 2021 11:29:08 GMT -5
An interview posted on Amazon: "I have finished reading Roy Haws book, "Brushy Bill...Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale?" Here's my review I had posted on Amazon: "Anyone who has studied the history of William H. Bonney aka Billy the Kid, from amateur history enthusiasts to notable historians, we've all heard the Billy the Kid myths and conspiracy theories that range from slightly plausible to downright ridiculous. No other Billy the Kid myth has gotten as much attention and has deceived many people than the absurd notion that Billy the Kid’s death was a hoax and that he really lived to be an old man. The one man that laid the biggest claim to that conspiracy theory is Brushy Bill Roberts. Brushy’s claim was exposed to the general public in C.L. Sonnichsen and William Morrison’s book, “Alias Billy the Kid” (1955) and it snowballed from there." "Thanks to the movie “Young Guns 2” (1990), it brought attention to Brushy Bill Roberts to a new generation that was so caught up in the Hollywood romanticized Billy the Kid that they couldn’t accept the truth of their hero getting killed. So with the seed planted, a slew of “Brushy Believers” began preaching their theories on websites, social media, books, television, and worse of all, a museum in Hico, Texas dedicated to raising awareness that Brushy Bill Roberts was indeed Billy the Kid. Even Brushy Bill’s headstone has an inscription “Billy the Kid” to further deceive the public that he was the famous New Mexico outlaw. I shudder to think how many tourists were easily fooled out of ignorance." "The myth and lies of Brushy Bill Roberts has been the subject of heated debates for years and almost lead to the exhumations of graves for DNA testing, but that’s a topic for another debate. Anyways, no matter how much historical facts and just plain common sense proved otherwise, Brushy Believers stood firm and would counter with delusional theories that even exceeded the imagination of Brushy Bill himself." "That may now come to an end." "Roy Haws, author of “Brushy Bill…Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale,” has compiled enough evidence to discredit Brushy Bill Robert’s claims and finally put this debate to rest once and for all. What makes this book unique from other books out there discrediting Brushy Bill, is that Roy is the great-great nephew of Brushy Bill Roberts and therefore has access to family records, documentation, and testimony from family members. Along with Roy’s painstaking research and documentation of the genealogy and origin of Brushy Bill, he also debunks Brushy’s many claims, from his colorful stories to his outright lies. Roy counters and extinguishes every conspiracy theory put out by Brushy’s supporters. I don’t think even the staunchest Brushy Believer can refute the abundance of evidence in this book." "Anyone with an open-mind who questions if Oliver Roberts alias Brushy Bill Roberts is Billy the Kid, must read this book. If you already know Brushy was a fraud, this is a good source to have in your collection to use as reference in your debates with Brushy Believers. Then again, if Brushy Believers still exists after this book then they truly are a lost cause and not worth the effort." "Thank you Roy Haws for your hard work on debunking Brushy Bill Roberts." Come on TTT is this your clever way of admitting your true identity is Roy Haws?
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Post by DanJohno on Jun 7, 2021 12:00:14 GMT -5
TTT, perhaps you could explain what the evidence consists of in Roys book? According to Wayne there was no evidence presented at all. And I trust Wayne a lot more than some random person who wrote this review without naming a single piece of concrete evidence. Because apparently all of Brett Hall's revelations are bogus but a Roy Haws book review on Amazon? That's truly the nail in the Brushy coffin.
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Post by RonBk on Jun 7, 2021 15:48:05 GMT -5
TTT, perhaps you could explain what the evidence consists of in Roys book? According to Wayne there was no evidence presented at all. And I trust Wayne a lot more than some random person who wrote this review without naming a single piece of concrete evidence. It would be cool if you could provide a piece of evidence from Roys book that is credible by your standards. And I dont mean your usual double standards. Im talking about the standards you apply to all evidence in Brushys favor.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jun 7, 2021 18:38:20 GMT -5
runback. Thanks for the vote of confidence. But just to set the record straight here, I didn't say there was no evidence in the book. I said there was no "proof". The evidence he presents is, in my opinion, misleading and in many cases untrustworthy. My main point though was that his evidence doesn't prove anything.
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Post by DanJohno on Jun 7, 2021 20:40:01 GMT -5
An interview posted on Amazon: "I have finished reading Roy Haws book, "Brushy Bill...Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale?" Here's my review I had posted on Amazon: "Anyone who has studied the history of William H. Bonney aka Billy the Kid, from amateur history enthusiasts to notable historians, we've all heard the Billy the Kid myths and conspiracy theories that range from slightly plausible to downright ridiculous. No other Billy the Kid myth has gotten as much attention and has deceived many people than the absurd notion that Billy the Kid’s death was a hoax and that he really lived to be an old man. The one man that laid the biggest claim to that conspiracy theory is Brushy Bill Roberts. Brushy’s claim was exposed to the general public in C.L. Sonnichsen and William Morrison’s book, “Alias Billy the Kid” (1955) and it snowballed from there." "Thanks to the movie “Young Guns 2” (1990), it brought attention to Brushy Bill Roberts to a new generation that was so caught up in the Hollywood romanticized Billy the Kid that they couldn’t accept the truth of their hero getting killed. So with the seed planted, a slew of “Brushy Believers” began preaching their theories on websites, social media, books, television, and worse of all, a museum in Hico, Texas dedicated to raising awareness that Brushy Bill Roberts was indeed Billy the Kid. Even Brushy Bill’s headstone has an inscription “Billy the Kid” to further deceive the public that he was the famous New Mexico outlaw. I shudder to think how many tourists were easily fooled out of ignorance." "The myth and lies of Brushy Bill Roberts has been the subject of heated debates for years and almost lead to the exhumations of graves for DNA testing, but that’s a topic for another debate. Anyways, no matter how much historical facts and just plain common sense proved otherwise, Brushy Believers stood firm and would counter with delusional theories that even exceeded the imagination of Brushy Bill himself." "That may now come to an end." "Roy Haws, author of “Brushy Bill…Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale,” has compiled enough evidence to discredit Brushy Bill Robert’s claims and finally put this debate to rest once and for all. What makes this book unique from other books out there discrediting Brushy Bill, is that Roy is the great-great nephew of Brushy Bill Roberts and therefore has access to family records, documentation, and testimony from family members. Along with Roy’s painstaking research and documentation of the genealogy and origin of Brushy Bill, he also debunks Brushy’s many claims, from his colorful stories to his outright lies. Roy counters and extinguishes every conspiracy theory put out by Brushy’s supporters. I don’t think even the staunchest Brushy Believer can refute the abundance of evidence in this book." "Anyone with an open-mind who questions if Oliver Roberts alias Brushy Bill Roberts is Billy the Kid, must read this book. If you already know Brushy was a fraud, this is a good source to have in your collection to use as reference in your debates with Brushy Believers. Then again, if Brushy Believers still exists after this book then they truly are a lost cause and not worth the effort." "Thank you Roy Haws for your hard work on debunking Brushy Bill Roberts." Come on TTT is this your clever way of admitting your true identity is Roy Haws? One phrase within. "If Brushy Believers still exist after this book then they truly are a lost cause and not worth the effort". So do you persist with your efforts on this forum with the sole purpose of putting doubts in people's minds to stop the Brushy movement gaining traction? State your true purpose here or are we not worth the effort? P.s I'm still convinced you are Frederick Nolan. But of course NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE has been found to support my belief. Aloha
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jun 8, 2021 13:00:44 GMT -5
I believe Roy Haws stated in his book that his mother "believed" Tunstill and Brushy. Roy also started out believing Brushy, mostly because his mother believed him, but then started researching it and came up with his evidence Brushy was a fraud and wrote his book. I don't think he said whether he had ever successfully convinced his mother.. Evidence she believed it is actually documented on the family tree posted earlier. Near the lower right corner there is a statement which appears to be "her" words. It reads "Oliver was killed - Brushy Bill used this name as an alias and lived with "my" great grandfather and S. Elizabeth". The word "my" indicates these were her words. BTW, Roy's book claims to contain proof that Brushy was a fraud but I read it cover to cover and found no such proof. The vast majority of the book are his own opinions about known family relationships, etc. that may or may not be accurate. Again, Roy, like Geneva Pittmon, was not around when Brushy took on the alias of Oliver Roberts and has no real firsthand knowledge of the true facts. Just being a descendant of that family does not make him an authority on the truth. It is true that Eulaine believed that O L Roberts was the real Billy the Kid. Why? Because that was from the "research" of William Tunstill. Did Roy convince his mother she was wrong? No. Why? She died 8 January 2005, and Roy's first post on this board was 29 March 2014 before he found the conclusive evidence that Brushy Bill was the son of Henry Oliver Roberts and not BtK.
Here is the rest of the story:
"Brushy Bill...Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale", page 32. Transcription of first two paragraphs of letter from Eulaine Haws to William Tunstill.
"July 14, 1983
Dear Mr. Tunstill, I enjoyed your call last night very much. Martha Roberts Heath was my grandmother, so that makes Henry Oliver Roberts my great-grandfather, and Benjamin Roberts my great-great-grandfather. O. L. (Oliver, or Ollie, or Brushy Bill was my grandmother's first cousin, so that would make me his third cousin.
FROM YOUR RESEARCH, I BELIEVE HE WAS THE REAL BILLY THE KID. YOU CERTAINLY HAVE MY PERMISSION TO CHANGE THE TOMBSTONE AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE. I THINK YOU SAID IT WAS LISTED AS WILLIAM HENRY ROBERTS ON THE STONE."
The referenced "family tree" was indeed the work of Eulaine Haws, and is a combination of her personal knowledge of her parents and grandparents, WITH BOGUS INFORMATION PROVIDED BY WILLIAM TUNSTILL ABOUT WILLIAM HENRY ROBERTS AND HIS IMAGINARY PARENTS.
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Post by RonBk on Jun 8, 2021 13:59:41 GMT -5
TTT, you said it yourself, Eulaine wrote herself that Brushy was the cousin of Martha Roberts Heath, not her brother. So your previous statement that she knew he was O.P. is obviously not true. Furthermore there is nothing strange at all that she said she believed Brushy was Billy the kid after looking in to Tunstills research. Its just you and your usual biased way of seeing things in a certain way that make you jump to the conclusion she must have been fed lies from Tunstill. Its much more plausible imo that she put her own pieces together with the information she got through Tunstill and therefore concluded that Brushy was really Billy the kid. You are always looking through your biased anti Brushy sunglasses and that makes you blind from the truth. I admit I have my own sunglasses also, but I try to take em off as often I can to keep an open mind. Obviously you never do that. Its kind of obvious to anyone that Roys thoughts on the matter are less worth than Eulaine's. But you would never admit that, since you already put all your money on Roy. Or because you are Roy?
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Post by leeb on Jun 8, 2021 14:41:44 GMT -5
I've got a pair of them glasses and I must admit they look sharp. I'm on the understanding that old boy brushy's cult will not budge on inch on their beliefs. It's as plane as the nose on your boat. Provenance, provenance, provenance...
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Post by DanJohno on Jun 8, 2021 15:07:05 GMT -5
I've got a pair of them glasses and I must admit they look sharp. I'm on the understanding that old boy brushy's cult will not budge on inch on their beliefs. It's as plane as the nose on your boat. Provenance, provenance, provenance... Consider me the most loyal member of this "Cult".
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Post by DanJohno on Jun 8, 2021 15:14:42 GMT -5
I believe Roy Haws stated in his book that his mother "believed" Tunstill and Brushy. Roy also started out believing Brushy, mostly because his mother believed him, but then started researching it and came up with his evidence Brushy was a fraud and wrote his book. I don't think he said whether he had ever successfully convinced his mother.. Evidence she believed it is actually documented on the family tree posted earlier. Near the lower right corner there is a statement which appears to be "her" words. It reads "Oliver was killed - Brushy Bill used this name as an alias and lived with "my" great grandfather and S. Elizabeth". The word "my" indicates these were her words. BTW, Roy's book claims to contain proof that Brushy was a fraud but I read it cover to cover and found no such proof. The vast majority of the book are his own opinions about known family relationships, etc. that may or may not be accurate. Again, Roy, like Geneva Pittmon, was not around when Brushy took on the alias of Oliver Roberts and has no real firsthand knowledge of the true facts. Just being a descendant of that family does not make him an authority on the truth. It is true that Eulaine believed that O L Roberts was the real Billy the Kid. Why? Because that was from the "research" of William Tunstill. Did Roy convince his mother she was wrong? No. Why? She died 8 January 2005, and Roy's first post on this board was 29 March 2014 before he found the conclusive evidence that Brushy Bill was the son of Henry Oliver Roberts and not BtK.
Here is the rest of the story:
"Brushy Bill...Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale", page 32. Transcription of first two paragraphs of letter from Eulaine Haws to William Tunstill.
"July 14, 1983
Dear Mr. Tunstill, I enjoyed your call last night very much. Martha Roberts Heath was my grandmother, so that makes Henry Oliver Roberts my great-grandfather, and Benjamin Roberts my great-great-grandfather. O. L. (Oliver, or Ollie, or Brushy Bill was my grandmother's first cousin, so that would make me his third cousin.
FROM YOUR RESEARCH, I BELIEVE HE WAS THE REAL BILLY THE KID. YOU CERTAINLY HAVE MY PERMISSION TO CHANGE THE TOMBSTONE AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE. I THINK YOU SAID IT WAS LISTED AS WILLIAM HENRY ROBERTS ON THE STONE."
The referenced "family tree" was indeed the work of Eulaine Haws, and is a combination of her personal knowledge of her parents and grandparents, WITH BOGUS INFORMATION PROVIDED BY WILLIAM TUNSTILL ABOUT WILLIAM HENRY ROBERTS AND HIS IMAGINARY PARENTS.
Great post Fred. THE USE OF CAPITAL LETTERS REALLY MAKES THE INFORMATION IN CAPITALS MORE TRUE THAN THE INFORMATION NOT IN CAPITALS.
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Post by RonBk on Jun 8, 2021 15:27:29 GMT -5
It aint Fred, its Roy. And it aint international capslock day today, is it?
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Post by DanJohno on Jun 8, 2021 15:32:49 GMT -5
Ah Roy!! I knew TTT was someone famous. I'm happy to be wrong on this one. I'm going to buy Roy's book. HOPEFULLY I'LL ENJOY IT
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Post by DanJohno on Jun 8, 2021 15:44:10 GMT -5
An interview posted on Amazon: "I have finished reading Roy Haws book, "Brushy Bill...Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale?" Here's my review I had posted on Amazon: "Anyone who has studied the history of William H. Bonney aka Billy the Kid, from amateur history enthusiasts to notable historians, we've all heard the Billy the Kid myths and conspiracy theories that range from slightly plausible to downright ridiculous. No other Billy the Kid myth has gotten as much attention and has deceived many people than the absurd notion that Billy the Kid’s death was a hoax and that he really lived to be an old man. The one man that laid the biggest claim to that conspiracy theory is Brushy Bill Roberts. Brushy’s claim was exposed to the general public in C.L. Sonnichsen and William Morrison’s book, “Alias Billy the Kid” (1955) and it snowballed from there." "Thanks to the movie “Young Guns 2” (1990), it brought attention to Brushy Bill Roberts to a new generation that was so caught up in the Hollywood romanticized Billy the Kid that they couldn’t accept the truth of their hero getting killed. So with the seed planted, a slew of “Brushy Believers” began preaching their theories on websites, social media, books, television, and worse of all, a museum in Hico, Texas dedicated to raising awareness that Brushy Bill Roberts was indeed Billy the Kid. Even Brushy Bill’s headstone has an inscription “Billy the Kid” to further deceive the public that he was the famous New Mexico outlaw. I shudder to think how many tourists were easily fooled out of ignorance." "The myth and lies of Brushy Bill Roberts has been the subject of heated debates for years and almost lead to the exhumations of graves for DNA testing, but that’s a topic for another debate. Anyways, no matter how much historical facts and just plain common sense proved otherwise, Brushy Believers stood firm and would counter with delusional theories that even exceeded the imagination of Brushy Bill himself." "That may now come to an end." "Roy Haws, author of “Brushy Bill…Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale,” has compiled enough evidence to discredit Brushy Bill Robert’s claims and finally put this debate to rest once and for all. What makes this book unique from other books out there discrediting Brushy Bill, is that Roy is the great-great nephew of Brushy Bill Roberts and therefore has access to family records, documentation, and testimony from family members. Along with Roy’s painstaking research and documentation of the genealogy and origin of Brushy Bill, he also debunks Brushy’s many claims, from his colorful stories to his outright lies. Roy counters and extinguishes every conspiracy theory put out by Brushy’s supporters. I don’t think even the staunchest Brushy Believer can refute the abundance of evidence in this book." "Anyone with an open-mind who questions if Oliver Roberts alias Brushy Bill Roberts is Billy the Kid, must read this book. If you already know Brushy was a fraud, this is a good source to have in your collection to use as reference in your debates with Brushy Believers. Then again, if Brushy Believers still exists after this book then they truly are a lost cause and not worth the effort." "Thank you Roy Haws for your hard work on debunking Brushy Bill Roberts." Come on TTT is this your clever way of admitting your true identity is Roy Haws? Was I correct here TTT? Are you Roy Haws? You ignored the question the first time. If you are Roy then now I fully understand why you go to such great effort to protect the Oat Garrett version of history.
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Post by chivato88 on Jun 8, 2021 15:52:45 GMT -5
😯
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Post by leeb on Jun 8, 2021 16:01:48 GMT -5
Gutter press is a wonderful thing. It deviates from the proven facts. Oops that should have been in CAPITALS..
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