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Post by tboor74 on Jun 5, 2021 11:01:51 GMT -5
Anyone know the content of the story Brushy knew about that he had with the Abels that only they would know about?
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Post by leeb on Jun 5, 2021 15:20:52 GMT -5
Anyone know the content of the story Brushy knew about that he had with the Abels that only they would know about? No, don't know that story. I think they was the only one's who knew about it.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jun 5, 2021 18:21:42 GMT -5
An interesting and inaccurate chart, created by Eulaine Goff Haws that combined her personal knowledge about her parents and grandparents (verified and accurate) with some information about William Henry Roberts provided by William Tunstill (inaccurate).
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Post by RonBk on Jun 5, 2021 23:24:17 GMT -5
How do you know its inaccurate?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jun 5, 2021 23:58:32 GMT -5
How do you know its inaccurate? Census records (1880, 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930, and 1940), Texas Death Certificates, and Find a Grave memorials provide a paper trail from Eulaine Goff Haws to her parents, D L Goff and Vada Belle Heath Goff, to her maternal grandparents, Monroe Dudley John Heath and Martha Vada Roberts, to Henry Oliver Roberts and Caroline Dunn
Would you like a list of all these records: census year, county, and microfilm page numbers; TX D/C numbers; and FAG memorial numbers?
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Post by RonBk on Jun 6, 2021 1:42:49 GMT -5
If you would like to point out just one inaccuracy and the supporting evidence, that would be great. Or make a longer list that works as well.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jun 6, 2021 9:33:26 GMT -5
If you would like to point out just one inaccuracy and the supporting evidence, that would be great. Or make a longer list that works as well. I misread your previous question. I listed the extensive records that confirm Henry Oliver Roberts and Caroline Dunn were two of Eulaine's great-grandparents.
No credible records have been found that support Brushy's story that his parents were J H Roberts and Mary Adeline Dunn. No credible records have been found that indicate Caroline Dunn had a sister named Mary Adeline Dunn. No credible records have been found that Catherine McCarty and Mary Adeline Dunn were half-sisters. No credible record has been found that indicates Catherine McCarty was ever known as Catherine Bonney.
Brushy's story is fictional, supported by nothing other than his familiarity with events in Lincoln County, and some meaningless sworn affidavits obtained by William V Morrison.
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Post by RonBk on Jun 6, 2021 10:25:29 GMT -5
Thats simply not true. There are a lot of supporting evidence. On the other hand, the absence of certain genealogy records is not solid proof the person did not exist. Everyone knows that who is a serious researcher. You clearly have a very biased way of weighing evidence. By your standards, since there are no credible evidence of where Billy the kid was born and who his father was, we should conclude that he was never born and he had no father.
Its not serious to completely disregard the affidavits and claim none of them have any value. I dont mean youre wrong not believing Brushy of course, you may as well be right. Who knows. But you cant just disregard the affidavits, thats just ridiculous.
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Post by RonBk on Jun 6, 2021 11:07:33 GMT -5
Furthermore I dont understand why you wanted to prove that Henry Oliver Roberts and Caroline Dunn were two of Eulaine's great-grandparents. That does not conflict with the family tree posted above, so whats your point?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jun 6, 2021 12:20:42 GMT -5
Furthermore I dont understand why you wanted to prove that Henry Oliver Roberts and Caroline Dunn were two of Eulaine's great-grandparents. That does not conflict with the family tree posted above, so whats your point? The point is that the posted chart contains verifiable information about the ancestry of Eulaine Goff Haws, and shows that she was a descendant of Henry Oliver Roberts and Caroline Dunn. She correctly identified both wives of Henry Oliver Roberts, Caroline Dunn, her great-grandmother, and his second wife, Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson. She also knew that Brushy Bill had lived with Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson and Henry Oliver Roberts. Note that one of her 3 sons was Roy Lee Haws, author of "Brushy Bill...Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale", which repudiates Brushy's claim that he was Billy the Kid.
Contrast Eulaine's documented ancestry with the remainder of the chart, which contains no credible, verifiable record or evidence about the supposed relatives of William Henry Roberts.
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Post by RonBk on Jun 6, 2021 13:15:36 GMT -5
Furthermore I dont understand why you wanted to prove that Henry Oliver Roberts and Caroline Dunn were two of Eulaine's great-grandparents. That does not conflict with the family tree posted above, so whats your point? The point is that the posted chart contains verifiable information about the ancestry of Eulaine Goff Haws, and shows that she was a descendant of Henry Oliver Roberts and Caroline Dunn. She correctly identified both wives of Henry Oliver Roberts, Caroline Dunn, her great-grandmother, and his second wife, Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson. She also knew that Brushy Bill had lived with Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson and Henry Oliver Roberts. Note that one of her 3 sons was Roy Lee Haws, author of "Brushy Bill...Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale", which repudiates Brushy's claim that he was Billy the Kid.
Contrast Eulaine's documented ancestry with the remainder of the chart, which contains no credible, verifiable record or evidence about the supposed relatives of William Henry Roberts.
You still have not showed any evidence that have the strength to disprove the remainder of the chart.
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Post by RonBk on Jun 6, 2021 13:33:39 GMT -5
First of all, did Eulaine sign an affidavit that you can post here as evidence? If she did, please explain why her affidavit is more valuable than Severo Gallegos or Martile Abels affidavits. If there is no affidavit, please explain the chain of evidence and its strength. Also you need to explain why we should trust any statement she did about the identity of Brushy. For instance, how well did she know Oliver P Roberts? Did she know him well enough to recognize him at a later time as being Brushy? Please also explain why we should trust her at all. She could be a liar, or perhaps she was seeking fame? Perhaps she was mentally ill?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jun 6, 2021 15:50:19 GMT -5
Thats simply not true. There are a lot of supporting evidence. On the other hand, the absence of certain genealogy records is not solid proof the person did not exist. Everyone knows that who is a serious researcher. You clearly have a very biased way of weighing evidence. By your standards, since there are no credible evidence of where Billy the kid was born and who his father was, we should conclude that he was never born and he had no father. Its not serious to completely disregard the affidavits and claim none of them have any value. I dont mean youre wrong not believing Brushy of course, you may as well be right. Who knows. But you cant just disregard the affidavits, thats just ridiculous. The absence of census records is not evidence that a person did not exist. No record of my father has been found in the 1900 census, but he was recorded in the 1880, 1910, 1920, 1930, and 1940 census.
" There are a lot of supporting evidence." What is the supporting evidence to which you refer?
Hearsay is not evidence.
Anyone can swear to anything they believe to be true. Sworn affidavits submitted in court and subject to cross examination are credible.
Morrison published 5 affidavits. DeWitt Travis was not born when Garrett fired the fatal shot, and could not compare the appearance of Brushy Bill before and after 1881.
Robert E Lee swore he first saw Billy the Kid in 1889, and could not compare the appearance of Brushy Bill before and after 1881.
Martile Able lived with her parents in Lampasas County in 1880, and probably never saw Billy the Kid before 1881. Both Severo Gallegos and Jose Montoya identified Brushy as BtK, even though it had been 68 years since they had last seen Billy the Kid.
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Post by RonBk on Jun 6, 2021 16:37:03 GMT -5
I agree that the Gallegos and Montoya affidavits are the most important of these. They knew him before 1881 so their positive identification constitutes extremely strong and credible evidence. Of the other three Martile seems to be the most interesting. As I understand it Morrison contacted her since there was a consensus among historians at the time she could identify Billy the kid. Even though it seems she did not know Btk from before 1881, she has known Brushy as being Btk way back it seems and also her husband alledgedly did knew Btk prior to 1881. There is even a photo to support that. So her affidavit contributes some further weight also imo.
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Post by chivato88 on Jun 6, 2021 16:48:12 GMT -5
Martile was well respected by historians, but when she said Brushy was the Kid she wasnt so respected after that... Josephine Sanchez's affidavit pretty much seals the deal for me!
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