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DNA Study
Jun 28, 2021 13:44:52 GMT -5
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Post by leeb on Jun 28, 2021 13:44:52 GMT -5
Please put a lid on the sarcasm. It doesn't strengthen your argument. I understand why you want to equate their stories as being the same and I don't argue there is that one coincidence regarding the rhyming of names. And there is the similarity that both of them claimed someone else died in their place. But that's where the similarities end. You can legitimately say their stories have a couple of similarities but you can not say they are "the same". That is a major exaggeration and I think you know it. Since you obviously must know it and you insist on claiming they are the same, that means your statements are "disingenuous". And again, that doesn't strengthen your argument. It just makes you look desperate. I'm far from desperate but would like to point out that if I'd made those comments I'd be reprimanded. Your any opinion counts only applies to your following who regularly use sarcasm and name calling yet that's acceptable because their on your side of the fence. Anyway, it's a fact that Dalton and Brushy were friends before they decided what outlaw they were gonna be and that's why their stories are identical. Dalton was even the kid at one point. Every opinion counts "as you say ". |
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Post by Wayne Land on Jun 28, 2021 19:59:29 GMT -5
Leeb,
I'm sorry you fail to understand my position regarding sarcasm but I really do try to be fair in my criticism of those who use it. Understand it is sarcasm without supporting evidence that bothers me most. Either way, I will remind you this is "my" message board and I expect you to try and cooperate with my requests. If you can't do that then you are welcome to leave. I have resisted the idea of deleting your membership and I hope to continue to resist that temptation because the board needs to hear both sides of the debate. Believe it or not, I appreciate your participation.
Brushy's and Dalton's stories were not "identical". Do I really have to get into proving that? Did Dalton work for Judge Parker? Did he take on the alias of a cousin? Did he live with the Yaqui Indians for a while? Did he have a shoot out with Pat Garrett? Did he describe the layout of the McSween home, or the Lincoln Courthouse? Did he know facts about the LCW that were not common knowledge in his lifetime? Did Brushy claim he had given cyanide to John Wilkes Booth? Did he claim he knew where Jesse James buried treasure was located? Do I need to go on? The list could be quite lengthy that proves the stories were not "identical". I assert that claiming they had identical stories is disengenuous. "Disengenuous" is not a sarcastic term. I don't use the term to insult you. I just want you to admit their stories are not "identical" and limit your posts to discussing what you believe to be the truth. Surely, you can't possibly believe their stories were "identical".
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Post by tboor74 on Jun 29, 2021 5:52:08 GMT -5
If this should be moved to the Dalton thread apologies but thought I may as well add it to the chat. There's loads of reasons as to why dalton was a fraud, but then little titbits like this :
"During the planning, Dalton told Rudy to try and track down some of the other living members of the gang and Rudy found John Tramell, a cook. Rudy told the man that Jesse James wanted him to come to Meramec Caverns for his 102nd birthday party, but Tramell swore that he didn’t know the man. When Rudy went back to Dalton for an explanation, he was told that since he didn’t know a secret password, Tramell wouldn’t talk with him. When asked why he didn’t offer the password originally, Dalton said that he wanted to make sure that Rudy could be trusted. Dalton gave him the password and this time, when he returned to Tramell, the old man agreed to come to the party."
'If' that it true then how did Dalton know?
Similarly.
"Al Jennings, an 85-year-old Oklahoma train robber was brought face-to-face with J. Frank Dalton
for identification. Jennings immediately said, “It’s him! That’s the face. My word of honor….” He had no doubt
that this person was James. Other than personal recognition, Jennings based his identification on one question to
the alleged James. Jennings asked Dalton if he recalled anything about a shooting match at the old “C Dot E
Ranch” in West Texas. Dalton replied, “You bet.” You won the shooting match at the ranch."
and
"Nimrod Long’s Bank in Russellville, Kentucky was one of the banks the James Gang was accused of robbing. In July 1948, Joe B. Browder, an Atlanta lighting engineer, attempted to assist in disproving Dalton’s claims.
Browder, great-grandson of Nimrod Long, believed he could determine if Dalton was genuine or an imposter based
on the knowledge he had from his grandfather regarding the Russellville bank robbery. Too far away from Dalton
to interview him personally, Browder challenged Dalton’s claim to be James by sending him questions he believed
only James could answer. One question was, how did James get the combination to the vault at the Russellville
bank? Dalton’s response was the vault was opened with a key. Browder knew this was the correct answer because
Browder’s brother still had the key".
Joe Bowder in fact said "“He knows enough
to get me kind of worried. The toughest questions are the ones he answered correctly.”
There's loads more too.
Dalton appears a cast iron fraud, then you read those and think "How did he know that?"
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DNA Study
Jun 29, 2021 9:35:51 GMT -5
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Post by RonBk on Jun 29, 2021 9:35:51 GMT -5
Tibor thanks for sharing this. These stories obviously constitutes strong evidence in Daltons favor. Whats the evidence against him? The finger thing dont seem that strong, could as well be a misconception.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 14:26:10 GMT -5
Isn't Daniel Edwards researching to write a book about Jesse James and how his robberies may have been funding the civil war? I reckon Daniel will reveal a lot about Dalton. I reckon Daniel is sitting on some gold nuggets of evidence that he's discovered and his next book is gunna blow our minds. He said he was in an interview with Sue Land of the Billy the Kid museum last year in 2020. Here is a link to the interview. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfAt0pPMtnc |
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Post by tboor74 on Jul 13, 2021 3:17:57 GMT -5
There's a woman on Fbook who is J Frank Dalton's Great Grand Daughter, her father has written a couple of books digging into Dalton / Jesse James. Apparently the woman and her brother have had DNA testing done and there is a link to the James family. It doesn't prove Dalton was JJ and I haven't read the books yet or seen the DNA evidence 100% validated, but it certainly thickens the plot.
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Post by tboor74 on Jul 25, 2021 9:41:19 GMT -5
Having dug into this a bit more the plot is as follows.
This lady and her brother have had their DNA tested and it apparently links them into being descendants of Jesse James.
Her Great randfather was J Frank Dalton, who the family have revealed was secretly Jesse James.
J Frank Dalton revealed himself as Jesse James as widely reported ( he had been living under the name Jacob Gerlt)
Then he died and another old timer then pretended to be J Frank Dalton!!
Make of that what you will.
Which J Frank did Brushy know?
There were also rumoured to be at least 2 (if not 3) Jesse James in the same family, Jesse Woodrow and Jesse Robert and a cousin named Samuels who pretended to be Frank james to let the real Frank escape.
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Post by texas truth teller on Jul 25, 2021 11:32:47 GMT -5
Having dug into this a bit more the plot is as follows. This lady and her brother have had their DNA tested and it apparently links them into being descendants of Jesse James. Her Great randfather was J Frank Dalton, who the family have revealed was secretly Jesse James. J Frank Dalton revealed himself as Jesse James as widely reported ( he had been living under the name Jacob Gerlt) Then he died and another old timer then pretended to be J Frank Dalton!! Make of that what you will. Which J Frank did Brushy know? There were also rumoured to be at least 2 (if not 3) Jesse James in the same family, Jesse Woodrow and Jesse Robert and a cousin named Samuels who pretended to be Frank james to let the real Frank escape. Some Fake Jesse Woodson James: JAMES LAFAYETTE COURTNEY- 3 books by Betty Dorsett Duke JOHN FRANK DALTON- "Jesse James and the Lost Cause", 1961, Jesse Lee James (aka Jesse James III, Orvus Lee Howk) "Jesse James Was One of His Names - The Greatest Cover Up in History by the Famous Outlaw Who Lived 73 Incredible Lives", 1975, Del Schraeder and Jesse James II (Orvus Lee Howk) "I Knew Jesse James", Rudy Turilli, 1997 WILLIAM JOHN JAMES "Jesse James - Though Officially Dead Lived On for 65 Years," 1981, Rev. Highley JACOB BENJAMIN GERLT- "Jesse James, the Real Story,", 1994, by Vincel Simmons, JEREMIAH JAMES - "Jesse James Secret", 2010, by Ron Pastore, |
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Post by cassandra jane on Feb 16, 2022 6:18:21 GMT -5
I’ve emailed an individual who is claiming on various sites that she has a marriage record between Billy and Abrana, but also claims to have been Abrana in a past life. Bit convenient in my opinion but I’d still like to see the record. |
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Post by tboor74 on Feb 16, 2022 7:04:22 GMT -5
Haha, I know who you mean!
Very interested to see what you get back...I wouldn't hold your breath.
If memory serves me correct the certificate may even be in another name which BTK was 'apparently' using.
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DNA Study
Feb 16, 2022 7:12:09 GMT -5
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Post by cassandra jane on Feb 16, 2022 7:12:09 GMT -5
Haha, I know who you mean! Very interested to see what you get back...I wouldn't hold your breath. If memory serves me correct the certificate may even be in another name which BTK was 'apparently' using. I’m glad I’m not the only one aware of her claims! I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a complete forgery and aged to look the part if there even is one. I’m not saying she’s lying but it’s very convenient 😂 I just think if it were true, we’d already know about it/it’d be much more well publicised. Update: she’s at it again one day ago - this time claiming she’s Billy’s distant cousin through Thomas Dodson Sr. Which is it, are you Abrana reincarnated or are you distant relatives? |
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Post by cassandra jane on Feb 16, 2022 8:41:47 GMT -5
I’m glad I’m not the only one aware of her claims! I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a complete forgery and aged to look the part if there even is one. I’m not saying she’s lying but it’s very convenient 😂 I just think if it were true, we’d already know about it/it’d be much more well publicised. Update: she’s at it again one day ago - this time claiming she’s Billy’s distant cousin through Thomas Dodson Sr. Which is it, are you Abrana reincarnated or are you distant relatives? She got back to me with her “evidence”. Of course I can’t read anything but the names because I think it’s in Spanish (or just really bad handwriting). Alias “Martin Garcia” - but can someone tell me what the year is listed at the top of the document(a). I read it to be 1871 but I don’t know if I’m misreading or just going crazy. ![]() ![]() Attachments:
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Post by tboor74 on Feb 16, 2022 8:42:18 GMT -5
Martin Garcia...that's the one
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Post by cassandra jane on Feb 16, 2022 8:44:13 GMT -5
That year definitely says 1871 though, right?
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Post by tboor74 on Feb 16, 2022 10:57:46 GMT -5
It does.
Remind me why she thinks this is Billy?
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