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Post by Wayne Land on May 23, 2021 9:54:15 GMT -5
I guess you could say that, but, "if" the theory is correct, then I didn't "create" anyone. I simply discovered his existence. BTW, I first proposed this theory several years ago. "If" it is correct then it answers a number of questions that have long cast doubt on Brushy's story. Questions like:
How could a mother mistake someone as being her own child when he was not? Especially if he was 20 years older than her son? Well, if that son was born in 1868 then Brushy (Billy) would have only been about 9 years older than him and she had not seen that son since he was a baby.
Where did the 1868 birthdate come from? It is the birthdate of Oliver L. Roberts who is the actual person Brushy was impersonating.
Why didn't Brushy say he was married to Anna Lee? Because he never was.
Why did Brushy use the middle initial "L" most of the time? Because that was the real middle initial of the alias he was using and it would have been too easy for folks to know he was a fraud if he used the name Oliver P. Roberts, who might have even still been around in the 1910 time frame. By 1918, the real Oliver P. had disappeared but he was being summoned to register for the draft. Knowing the draft officials had no idea what Oliver P. looked like, Brushy chose to register on his behalf just as he had signed the divorce papers for Anna Lee. All this makes me suspicious there was foul play involved with Oliver P's demise and no one ever knew where the body was buried.
Gee, it's fun to brainstorm. Thanks to those who are willing to open their minds to other possibilities.
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Anna Lee
May 23, 2021 11:46:05 GMT -5
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Post by RonBk on May 23, 2021 11:46:05 GMT -5
This is a scenario that would explain a lot. Good thinking Wayne. If you take the other perspective, the 3T perspective, you also want to find an explanation to the whole Oliver L identity of Brushy. They could make the choice here to start theorizing Brushy was actually Oliver L, but we have not seen that yet. Its probably a road they dont want to go down. But it doesnt make any sense to think that Brushy was Oliver Pleasant either. I mean, if he was Oliver P and decided to take on the identity of the kid, why would he then go through all the trouble of first claiming to be Oliver L for a long period of time? That doesnt make much sense.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on May 23, 2021 13:13:14 GMT -5
This is a scenario that would explain a lot. Good thinking Wayne. If you take the other perspective, the 3T perspective, you also want to find an explanation to the whole Oliver L identity of Brushy. They could make the choice here to start theorizing Brushy was actually Oliver L, but we have not seen that yet. Its probably a road they dont want to go down. But it doesnt make any sense to think that Brushy was Oliver Pleasant either. I mean, if he was Oliver P and decided to take on the identity of the kid, why would he then go through all the trouble of first claiming to be Oliver L for a long period of time? That doesnt make much sense. "claiming to be Oliver L for a long period of time?"
Who Was Brushy Bill Roberts? By Charles O. Saunders The BTKOG owes its origin to none other than Brushy Bill Roberts. In 1987, the town of Hico, in Hamilton Co., Texas had just recently resurrected Brushy Bill, elevating him from "town clown" to "the real Billy the Kid". The gullible media, always in search of a sensational story, no matter how silly, was all over it. In order to counter the Brushy Bill hysteria, Joe and Maryln Bowlin founded the BTKOG. ************ Brushy’s last marriage was on 14 January 1945 to “Mrs. Malinda E. Allison” in Hamilton Co., Texas. She was probably Malinda Elizabeth Murrell, widow of James Thomas Allison, who died February 1943. Brushy and Malinda’s marriage record is noteworthy, because it marks the first time (on any document I have seen) that Brushy used the ‘L.’ middle initial. It would appear again on his death certificate, along with the bogus birth date of December 31, 1868, information provided by his widow, Malinda. The odds are very good that both these changes, middle initial and birth date, had nothing to do with his short stint in show business, but had everything to do with a pension – one for which Oliver P. wouldn’t have qualified. Brushy Bill’s “real” life story is no mystery. The material I’ve presented here represents only a small portion of that available on Brushy. The same type of information is also available on all of his family members going back many generations. Brushy’s great grandmother, on his grandmother’s side of the family, was a Cherokee Indian. Brushy’s manager and agent, during his extremely brief (less than one year) career as Billy the Kid, was William Vincent Morrison. Before Brushy, Morrison had done legitimate early research on the ancestors of Fort Sumner’s own Lucien B. Maxwell. Ironically, his research had nothing to do with Billy the Kid; Morrison was working on his own family history. His great grandmother was Eveline Harriet Maxwell, daughter of Ferdinand Maxwell, Lucien’s brother.
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Anna Lee
May 23, 2021 21:04:54 GMT -5
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RonBk likes this
Post by DanJohno on May 23, 2021 21:04:54 GMT -5
I think Billy's plan worked. Steal your cousin's identity. Keep changing birthday's and middle name's and then in 1950 it's too hard to become Billy again because you are now 2 different versions of your own cousin. Maybe his goal was to create confusion and to leave a trail that just didn't make sense. I like his style of thinking.
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Post by tboor74 on May 24, 2021 1:19:23 GMT -5
There's a couple of interesting things in the old articles, particularly the ones from the 30s. The one where Brushy is referred to as Owl Roberts, would this not suggest the reporter misheard when told the man's name was O L Roberts? Certainly makes more sense than O P to Owl. Similarly, I firmly believe the O K Roberts was a typo, but again, you could easily see a K instead of an L as they are next to each other on the keyboard, but not a K instead of a P.
These 'could' suggest O P was going as OL by the early 30s.
Again, just observations.
Thoughts?
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Anna Lee
May 24, 2021 11:38:07 GMT -5
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Post by RonBk on May 24, 2021 11:38:07 GMT -5
There's a couple of interesting things in the old articles, particularly the ones from the 30s. The one where Brushy is referred to as Owl Roberts, would this not suggest the reporter misheard when told the man's name was O L Roberts? Certainly makes more sense than O P to Owl. Similarly, I firmly believe the O K Roberts was a typo, but again, you could easily see a K instead of an L as they are next to each other on the keyboard, but not a K instead of a P. These 'could' suggest O P was going as OL by the early 30s. Again, just observations. Thoughts? I agree upon this. Brushy most likely gave his name as O L Roberts and then it became Owl Roberts by mistake. So we can establish from this that Brushy had been using the alias O L Roberts for quiet some time back. Good work.
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Anna Lee
May 24, 2021 11:46:56 GMT -5
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Post by leeb on May 24, 2021 11:46:56 GMT -5
Or perhaps it was 'al' roberts.(short for allan). Yes, just created another one, this is getting like the Walton's.
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Post by Wayne Land on May 24, 2021 12:21:58 GMT -5
TTT posted above, "The odds are very good that both these changes, middle initial and birth date, had nothing to do with his short stint in show business, but had everything to do with a pension – one for which Oliver P. wouldn’t have qualified."
I have to agree that is a logical scenario unlike the only other explanation I ever heard for the middle initial which was "The P stood for Pleasant which was a name Oliver always hated, so he changed it to L." In my mind that explanation is as far out there as the one I offered.
But TTT's post does make sense. Even if it is correct, I still believe Brushy was the real Billy The Kid. It would just mean all the time he called himself "Oliver", it was Oliver Pleasant Roberts he was impersonating.
Or there really was an Oliver L. Roberts. We may never know for sure!
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Post by MissyS on May 24, 2021 12:23:53 GMT -5
I believe he was living in Gladewater TX in the 1930’s, if it was in the 30’s that he started using “Ollie L” ? I don’t know when exactly he had worked as a security or plainclothes man but it could have been around that time? and the “OWL” could have been a sort of nickname representing a nightwatch security? I thought it interesting that “Ollie L” was engraved on his original gravestone before it was changed.
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Post by nmjames on May 24, 2021 13:49:25 GMT -5
You need to go back and read the newspapers from July 5, 1940 where Brushy said his fathers name was owl and the one from August 1, 1947 where Bushy said his fathers name was Al. Brushy didn't say his name was owl or Al.
You may also want to look at the newspaper from August 29, 1935 where Brushy said that Jesse James was killed in 1882.
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Post by Wayne Land on May 24, 2021 15:04:19 GMT -5
You need to go back and read the newspapers from July 5, 1940 where Brushy said his fathers name was owl and the one from August 1, 1947 where Bushy said his fathers name was Al. Brushy didn't say his name was owl or Al. You may also want to look at the newspaper from August 29, 1935 where Brushy said that Jesse James was killed in 1882. The 1935 article does not quote Brushy as saying Jesse was killed in 1882. You'll notice statements attributed to Brushy are in quotes, but that one is not. The author of the article decided to add Jesse's death date to the story.
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Post by Wayne Land on May 24, 2021 15:11:43 GMT -5
Also noticed in the July 1940 article it says he was 72 years old. That means at least by 1940 he was claiming the 1868 birthdate. Which means he was likely using the middle initial "L" by that time as well. The 1935 article doesn't give his age but it does talk about him going to Argentina to break horses "44 years ago." Do the math, that means his alleged travel was in 1891 or so at which time the real Oliver P. Roberts was only 11 or 12 years old.
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Anna Lee
May 25, 2021 16:59:11 GMT -5
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Post by RonBk on May 25, 2021 16:59:11 GMT -5
I totally agree. Furthermore this dont match very well with the outlandish theory that Brushy was just fabricating a story he was Billy the kid. Sometimes its right there for the taking but some people choose to not see the simple facts for what they are. Brushy told his story for a reason that is very simple. He wanted to tell the truth about his life, which would be the normal thing to do we should recognize. There is no other credible explanation.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on May 25, 2021 22:21:56 GMT -5
I totally agree. Furthermore this dont match very well with the outlandish theory that Brushy was just fabricating a story he was Billy the kid. Sometimes its right there for the taking but some people choose to not see the simple facts for what they are. Brushy told his story for a reason that is very simple. He wanted to tell the truth about his life, which would be the normal thing to do we should recognize. There is no other credible explanation. Some might say that Brushy Bill (Oliver P Roberts) led a very uneventful life as a farmer, laborer, and rodeo rider. After becoming acquainted with J Frank Dalton, he saw the frenzied attention of the media after Dalton claimed he was Jesse James. Brushy decided to become Billy the Kid, and told an incredible story of unbelievable adventures. Information about events in the Lincoln County war had been published in 1926, “The Saga of Billy the Kid”. Brushy created an imaginary family that included names from his real family. Father: Imaginary - J H “Wild HENRY” Roberts Real -HENRY Oliver Roberts Mother Imaginary - Mary Adeline DUNN Real - Sarah ELIZABETH FERGUSON Father’s other wife: Imaginary - ELIZABETH FERGUSON Real - Caroline DUNN (mother of Martha Heath) Relative: Imaginary cousin - MARTHA HEATH Real half-sister - MARTHA Vada Roberts HEATH
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Post by DanJohno on May 26, 2021 0:17:19 GMT -5
Pat Garrett- Imaginary Career• Killed Billy the kid and provided proof he did.
Real Career• Didn't kill Billy the kid and wrote a book saying he did and not many people enjoyed the book.
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