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Post by RonBk on May 9, 2021 14:41:49 GMT -5
So why do you even bother to take part in it?
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Anna Lee
May 10, 2021 0:51:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by kerry on May 10, 2021 0:51:36 GMT -5
Leeb and 3T -stauntly protect the official narrative -BTK in old Fort Sumner cemetery curtesy Pat Garrett... One and only one ever photo of BTK Yet....Leeb has contributed positively on the photos that have emerged in recent years - the oringinal tin-type in 1879-80 clearly shows BTK with a single action ...not a birds' head self-cocker that Garrett Poe and Siribgo - claimed was retrieved from Pete Maxwell's bedroom.I believe time will tell -Iam a plane hunter -DNA ancestry .com hearsay from the past - all means nothing to me...yet the tbe human content is just so envigorating so fascinating so unfathomable...for now.
e gauged against common sense.
..
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on May 10, 2021 10:28:38 GMT -5
Leeb and 3T -stauntly protect the official narrative -BTK in old Fort Sumner cemetery curtesy Pat Garrett... One and only one ever photo of BTK Yet....Leeb has contributed positively on the photos that have emerged in recent years - the oringinal tin-type in 1879-80 clearly shows BTK with a single action ...not a birds' head self-cocker that Garrett Poe and Siribgo - claimed was retrieved from Pete Maxwell's bedroom.I believe time will tell -Iam a plane hunter -DNA ancestry .com hearsay from the past - all means nothing to me...yet the tbe human content is just so envigorating so fascinating so unfathomable...for now. .. Kerry, I do not staunchly protect or defend the narrative of the death of Billy the Kid. There are conflicting accounts, although the coroners jury report is credible evidence that he was killed.
I absolutely believe there is sufficient evidence that would convince any reasonable person that Brushy Bill was the son of Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson.
Brushy Bill's claim to be Billy the Kid is not supported by ANY credible evidence, even though his knowledge of Lincoln County events was extensive. Conversely, there is a wealth of contemporary census, marriage, divorce, WWI registration, and land records that prove Brushy Bill's birth name was Oliver P Roberts.
Further evidence that Brushy Bill was Oliver P Roberts is found on page 61 of "Alias Billy the Kid". Brushy said he returned the belongings of his dead cousin to his family in Sulphur Springs. Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson, the parents of Oliver P Roberts lived near Sulphur Springs from about 1885 until after 1900. "They took him for the runaway boy and he let them think he was."
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Post by Wayne Land on May 10, 2021 11:49:20 GMT -5
TTT,
The coroner's jury report is not "credible". This has been discussed ad nauseam.
Brushy's claim "is" supported by credible evidence. You don't get to be the official declarer of what is and is not credible.
Contemporary census, marriage, divorce, WWI registration, and land records do not "prove" Brushy was Oliver P. Roberts. They prove there was an Oliver P. Roberts. They do not prove he and Brushy were one and the same person. You know that.
"Brushy said he returned the belongings of his dead cousin to "his" family in Sulphur Springs."
I'm pretty sure in this context "his" family meant the dead cousin's family.
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Anna Lee
May 10, 2021 12:52:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by leeb on May 10, 2021 12:52:11 GMT -5
Historians have put in the ground work and disregard brushy's claims. Is there one that champions his story? Morrison was neither a historian, author or anything else,he just took an old man's yarns and run with it. Brushy's knowledge of the LCW was wildly available. Historians writing books is completely different to authors who think they're historians.
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Anna Lee
May 10, 2021 13:04:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by kerry on May 10, 2021 13:04:54 GMT -5
Sorry about the word "staunchly" -and for mispelling it....in relation to the Fort Sumner tin type though - I do remember the words "one and only one" which is probably what the owner likes to hear considering many of the offerings are far better than his...in fact at least 4 of them are clearly the same chubby faced "Kid" - its only the old tin type and Brushy photos that havw me scratching my head (apart from the ears of coarse!) Cheers..
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Post by Wayne Land on May 10, 2021 14:38:38 GMT -5
Historians have put in the ground work and disregard brushy's claims. Is there one that champions his story? Morrison was neither a historian, author or anything else,he just took an old man's yarns and run with it. Brushy's knowledge of the LCW was wildly available. Historians writing books is completely different to authors who think they're historians. Brett Hall is a qualified legit historian and has uncovered many details supporting Brushy. C.L. Sonnichsen who wrote Morrison's book was also a "historian". It's my understanding that is the reason Morrison got him involved in the first place. But let's be honest, "historians" are fallible just like anyone else. Indeed, History does get it wrong on occasion. And I have to also disagree with your suggestion that Brushy's knowledge of the LCW was widely available. That is an outright falsehood.
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Anna Lee
May 10, 2021 14:46:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by RonBk on May 10, 2021 14:46:10 GMT -5
Even though it seems almost impossible to come up with evidence that can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt Brushy was in fact Billy, the evidence that do exist is massive. In my opinion the evidence that is available now comes very close to confirm Brushys story beyond reasonable doubt. It doesnt really matter that a lot of historians have taken the position to not put their weight behind Brushys story so far. Lets not forget there are reasons why historians usually are hesitant to support alternative narratives like this. They have their reputation to consider and also they can naturally be kind of stuck with a certain established narrative to a very high degree, due to the fact they have done a lot of reading of texts that supports that accepted narrative. There is a factor of inertia to it. Once a certain narrative is historically accepted it gets entrenched and wont change unless there is overwhelming evidence thats impossible to refute. Also, historians are only normal people just like any of us. They have the ability to read stuff, talk to other people, and make assertions based on info they get. Just as anyone of you can do for yourself. Its not rocket science. And lets face the fact, Garrett's story of the shooting at Maxwells is obviously bogus.
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Anna Lee
May 10, 2021 19:08:26 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by DanJohno on May 10, 2021 19:08:26 GMT -5
I was just wondering how often historians have admitted they were wrong. Does it happen? Like has there ever been a historian find out their life's work was completely wrong? and just said "Ah well, Sorry everyone but I've been wrong all this time".
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Post by RonBk on May 11, 2021 2:39:30 GMT -5
Ok folks, lets get back to the question of Brushy's first marriage with Anna Lee. I know that there is a possibility that it wasnt really Brushy who got married to her, but that he assumed the identity of Oliver P at some point to help Anna with the divorce. Besides that, do anyone find it interesting that Brushys first marriage happens shortly after Garrett's death? I feel that there may have been a reason for Brushy to not get married while Pat Garrett was still alive. Then once Garrett was gone, Brushy could go all in on this and go through any number of wifes that he wanted?
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Post by tboor74 on May 11, 2021 4:59:01 GMT -5
Something seems to have inspired Brushy to go from resolute bachelor (I assume late 20s/ early 30s was considered quite old to marry for the 1st time back then?) to serial stud with a rake of marriages one after each other? That alone is a question to ask....separate from any is/he isn't he scenario. Seems weird.
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Post by DanJohno on May 11, 2021 8:02:55 GMT -5
I've never really thought about this but if Brushy was Billy then he would of been like 50 when he got married for the first time?
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Anna Lee
May 11, 2021 9:39:43 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by chivato88 on May 11, 2021 9:39:43 GMT -5
Ok folks, lets get back to the question of Brushy's first marriage with Anna Lee. I know that there is a possibility that it wasnt really Brushy who got married to her, but that he assumed the identity of Oliver P at some point to help Anna with the divorce. Besides that, do anyone find it interesting that Brushys first marriage happens shortly after Garrett's death? I feel that there may have been a reason for Brushy to not get married while Pat Garrett was still alive. Then once Garrett was gone, Brushy could go all in on this and go through any number of wifes that he wanted? It makes sense
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Anna Lee
May 11, 2021 15:15:31 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by kerry on May 11, 2021 15:15:31 GMT -5
Brushy claimed to have spent several years in Mexico - with rumor he had families there during his younger life.. Hispanics in NM as well BTK's friends were always going to remain quiet because they were worse than second class citizens -always vulnerable -BTK's friends even kept photos to themselves until with the passing of generations his memory faded and the photos were dispersed -some surviving only in junk shops...some lost forever...some priceless -why aren't historians buzzing over the Croquet picture? The Custer syndrome alive and well...
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Post by Elwood on May 13, 2021 10:11:59 GMT -5
Brushy claimed to have spent several years in Mexico - with rumor he had families there during his younger life.. Hispanics in NM as well BTK's friends were always going to remain quiet because they were worse than second class citizens -always vulnerable -BTK's friends even kept photos to themselves until with the passing of generations his memory faded and the photos were dispersed -some surviving only in junk shops...some lost forever...some priceless -why aren't historians buzzing over the Croquet picture? The Custer syndrome alive and well... There are many newspaper databases out there, but this one for Texas can often retrieve some good info. Brushy Bill and his associates would be good subjects to search there:texashistory.unt.edu/explore/collections/TDNP/
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