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Post by RonBk on Oct 14, 2023 7:30:19 GMT -5
Didn't Brushy say that Belle Starr gave him the name "Bonney". I know I read that somewhere. It that's true then obviously he didn't think his aunt's name was Bonney. Yes it appears he did say that to Morrison, this is discussed in the following thread: brushybill.proboards.com/thread/683/fabricated-evidence
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Post by texas truth teller on Oct 14, 2023 11:05:43 GMT -5
The truth is right there! Most of you must be blind for ignoring facts like that Texas is putting in front of you're eyes. Or you've just read Alias and made up you're mind, wake up people ! Josh, it is obvious that the source of Brushy's information was books, not events he experienced. “Morrison was unable to find any verification for the story that Billy left Silver City at the age of twelve after committing his first murder. He left, according to Roberts’ story, in 1872, at that age, in order to go back to Texas to see his people.” (Alias, p. 16) “It was at Silver City, when twelve years old, that Billy killed his first man.” (Saga, pp. 72, 73)
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Post by Josh on Oct 14, 2023 11:38:38 GMT -5
Didn't Brushy say that Belle Starr gave him the name "Bonney". I know I read that somewhere. It that's true then obviously he didn't think his aunt's name was Bonney. Thats one of the biggest lies of all , where's the proof that they ever met? And you just confirmed to me that you believe everything thats written in books without REAL research.
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Post by Josh on Oct 14, 2023 11:47:58 GMT -5
The truth is right there! Most of you must be blind for ignoring facts like that Texas is putting in front of you're eyes. Or you've just read Alias and made up you're mind, wake up people ! Josh, it is obvious that the source of Brushy's information was books, not events he experienced. “Morrison was unable to find any verification for the story that Billy left Silver City at the age of twelve after committing his first murder. He left, according to Roberts’ story, in 1872, at that age, in order to go back to Texas to see his people.” (Alias, p. 16) “It was at Silver City, when twelve years old, that Billy killed his first man.” (Saga, pp. 72, 73) You hit the nail on the head Texas, and both of them were wrong!
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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 14, 2023 12:53:43 GMT -5
Didn't Brushy say that Belle Starr gave him the name "Bonney". I know I read that somewhere. It that's true then obviously he didn't think his aunt's name was Bonney. Thats one of the biggest lies of all , where's the proof that they ever met? And you just confirmed to me that you believe everything thats written in books without REAL research. Josh, I wasn't suggesting there was any proof Brushy met Belle Starr. I was suggesting that if Brushy is on record as saying he got the name Bonney from her then he couldn't possibly have thought Catherine's last name was "Bonney". That's the topic we were discussing. And in response to your other post that follows, please tell me where I can do some research that would satisfy you or be worthwhile to you. I don't want to be guilty of believing everything I read in books, without doing research. Of course, TTT is really good at researching the census, etc. Since we know that every single person who ever lived can be found in the census records, then searching through those is certainly a great source for "research". But tell me, where else do you do "your" research. I want to measure up but I need your secrets. On the other hand, I have stated many times in the past that I don't believe everything Brushy said, so maybe, just maybe, I'm not guilty of believing everything I read in books without doing research. Maybe you and TTT could be accused of disbelieving "everything" you read in books in spite of your "extensive" researching abilities. Would that be a fair accusation. TTT, you've been proven wrong about Brushy saying Catherine's last name was Bonney. I've clearly shown that to be incorrect, and yet there's no presentation of research that proves otherwise. That's what this particular discussion is about. Josh attempts to change the subject. This is about what Brushy "said". Will you admit he did not say Catherine's last name was Bonney? Can you step up and admit you are not right about everything you ever thought was right. Just be honest. We've all made mistakes. If you can't be honest and admit when you're wrong then you have no integrity and no value to this discussion.
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Post by texas truth teller on Oct 15, 2023 10:11:20 GMT -5
Josh, it is obvious that the source of Brushy's information was books, not events he experienced. “Morrison was unable to find any verification for the story that Billy left Silver City at the age of twelve after committing his first murder. He left, according to Roberts’ story, in 1872, at that age, in order to go back to Texas to see his people.” (Alias, p. 16) “It was at Silver City, when twelve years old, that Billy killed his first man.” (Saga, pp. 72, 73) You hit the nail on the head Texas, and both of them were wrong! There is a record of Catherine and William Antrim in Santa Fe: “The 1 March 1873 marriage of William H Antrim and Catherine McCarty in a Presbyterian Church, in Santa Fe, NM.” “The West of Billy the Kid”, Frederick Nolan, 1957. p. 17 “I guess they believed it, but they should have known that Mrs.Antrim died in ’74 before I went to that country.” (Alias, p.15) “Just 5 short weeks later, on September 16, 1874. Catherine McCarty Antrim breathed her last in the little cabin on Main Street.” “The West of Billy the Kid”, Frederick Nolan, 1957. p. 26 Catherine Antrim died of tuberculosis in Silver City. “Morrison was unable to find any verification for the story that Billy left Silver City at the age of twelve after committing his first murder. He left, according to Roberts’ story, in 1872, at that age, in order to go back to Texas to see his people.” (Alias, p. 16) It is at least 241 miles from Santa Fe to Silver City. Timeline question: Were William Antrim, Catherine, and Brushy in Silver City in 1872 as Brushy claimed, before traveling over 241 miles to Santa Fe to be married in 1873, and returning over 241 miles to Silver City where Catherine died in 1874?
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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 15, 2023 13:40:28 GMT -5
TTT,
So you're still not going to admit you were wrong about Brushy saying her name was Bonney. Instead you go back to the wedding date, like that proves anything. Pathetic!!!
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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 15, 2023 18:36:02 GMT -5
TTT,
Here's a challenge for you. I'm hereby making a resolution that I will never, ever respond to any post you put up on the board until you've either admitted that you were wrong about Brushy saying his aunt's name was Bonney, or presented evidence that proves otherwise. In fact, I'm thinking about just deleting any post you put up that does not answer that challenge. That's a bit extreme and I haven't decided for sure, but if you soon find your posts are all disappearing before anyone has a chance to read them, you'll know why. This bait and switch posting you do is going to come to a screeching halt, once and for all.
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Post by texas truth teller on Oct 15, 2023 22:30:03 GMT -5
TTT, Here's a challenge for you. I'm hereby making a resolution that I will never, ever respond to any post you put up on the board until you've either admitted that you were wrong about Brushy saying his aunt's name was Bonney, or presented evidence that proves otherwise. In fact, I'm thinking about just deleting any post you put up that does not answer that challenge. That's a bit extreme and I haven't decided for sure, but if you soon find your posts are all disappearing before anyone has a chance to read them, you'll know why. This bait and switch posting you do is going to come to a screeching halt, once and for all. I apologize for failing to cite all sources. “Billy the Kid, The Lost Interviews”, W. C. Jameson, First Edition, 2012 (p 40) Morrison: “Tell me about your parents.” Roberts: “My mother’s name was Mary Adeline Dunn…My father was James Henry Roberts….They called my father Wild Henry Roberts. My mamma died in ’62 while my daddy was in the war and her half-sister, KATHERINE BONNEY, come to Buffalo Gap and got me. I don’t remember much of it - we traveled around a lot. We landed in Silver City, though.
I remember Silver City pretty well. Aunt katherine had married a man named Antrim.”
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Post by RonBk on Oct 16, 2023 2:35:52 GMT -5
TTT, Here's a challenge for you. I'm hereby making a resolution that I will never, ever respond to any post you put up on the board until you've either admitted that you were wrong about Brushy saying his aunt's name was Bonney, or presented evidence that proves otherwise. In fact, I'm thinking about just deleting any post you put up that does not answer that challenge. That's a bit extreme and I haven't decided for sure, but if you soon find your posts are all disappearing before anyone has a chance to read them, you'll know why. This bait and switch posting you do is going to come to a screeching halt, once and for all. I apologize for failing to cite all sources. “Billy the Kid, The Lost Interviews”, W. C. Jameson, First Edition, 2012 (p 40) Morrison: “Tell me about your parents.” Roberts: “My mother’s name was Mary Adeline Dunn…My father was James Henry Roberts….They called my father Wild Henry Roberts. My mamma died in ’62 while my daddy was in the war and her half-sister, KATHERINE BONNEY, come to Buffalo Gap and got me. I don’t remember much of it - we traveled around a lot. We landed in Silver City, though.
I remember Silver City pretty well. Aunt katherine had married a man named Antrim.” Im a little bit surprised you of all people suddenly regard Jameson's book as a credible source of information. Its up to you of course to view Jamesons book as credible evidence. Personally, I beg to differ.
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Post by cassandra jane on Oct 16, 2023 3:40:37 GMT -5
I apologize for failing to cite all sources. “Billy the Kid, The Lost Interviews”, W. C. Jameson, First Edition, 2012 (p 40) Morrison: “Tell me about your parents.” Roberts: “My mother’s name was Mary Adeline Dunn…My father was James Henry Roberts….They called my father Wild Henry Roberts. My mamma died in ’62 while my daddy was in the war and her half-sister, KATHERINE BONNEY, come to Buffalo Gap and got me. I don’t remember much of it - we traveled around a lot. We landed in Silver City, though.
I remember Silver City pretty well. Aunt katherine had married a man named Antrim.” Im a little bit surprised you of all people suddenly regard Jameson's book as a credible source of information. Its up to you of course to view Jamesons book as credible evidence. Personally, I beg to differ. Doesn’t Jameson literally admit in one of those editions that the book is a work of fiction? I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere.
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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 16, 2023 14:38:43 GMT -5
I believe Jameson claimed his book was based on the actual tapes of Brushy's interviews with Morrison. They in fact were not. We now know that Jameson never heard those tapes or reviewed Brushy's/Morrison's notebooks, etc. I believe this because Dan Edwards was able to locate the tapes and notebooks and they had not been viewed by anyone since Morrison handed them down. I believe Jameson got his information from just two places. 1) it came directly from Morrison's book, and 2) he added his own interpretation.
It remains a likely fact that Brushy never said his Aunt's name was Bonney.
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Post by texas truth teller on Oct 17, 2023 9:35:27 GMT -5
I believe Jameson claimed his book was based on the actual tapes of Brushy's interviews with Morrison. They in fact were not. We now know that Jameson never heard those tapes or reviewed Brushy's/Morrison's notebooks, etc. I believe this because Dan Edwards was able to locate the tapes and notebooks and they had not been viewed by anyone since Morrison handed them down. I believe Jameson got his information from just two places. 1) it came directly from Morrison's book, and 2) he added his own interpretation. It remains a likely fact that Brushy never said his Aunt's name was Bonney. Wayne, Jameson is a talented writer. Researcher and historian, not so much. Did Brushy read “The Saga of Billy the Kid”? Could Brushy have left Silver City for Texas in 1872 if the Antrims didn’t arrive in Silver City until 1873? “Mr, Roberts half-sister, Mrs. Kathrine Ann (Kathleen) Bonney, came down from the Indian Territory and took him away with her, being careful to avoid leaving her address lest the father should follow and claim his child. They went first to Trinidad, Colorado, then to Santa Fe, and finally to Silver City, New Mexico.” Alias Billy the Kid, (p. 16) 1 March 1, 1873 marriage of William H Antrim and Catherine McCarty in a Presbyterian Church, in Santa Fe, NM. The West of Billy the Kid, Frederick Nolan, 1957. (p. 17) “It was at Silver City, when twelve years old, that Billy killed his first man.” The Saga of Billy the Kid, (pp. 72, 73) “Morrison was unable to find any verification for the story that Billy left Silver City at the age of twelve after committing his first murder. He left, according to Roberts’ story, in 1872, at that age, in order to go back to Texas to see his people.” Alias Billy the Kid, (p. 16) Mrs. Katherine Ann Bonney and young Billy Roberts arrive in Santa Fe. Catherine McCarty and William H Antrim are married in 1873. Catherine, William Antrim, and Brushy then go to Silver City. Brushy arrived in Silver City in 1873, but Morrison said that there was a story that he had already killed a man in Silver City in 1872. Brushy said he left Silver City in 1872 to go back to Texas to see his people.
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Post by DanJohno on Oct 17, 2023 19:29:26 GMT -5
Did Governor Mabry mention at his meeting with Brushy that the writer of Saga of Billy the kid is his family? If Brushy apparently got all his info from saga shouldn't Mabry mention his own relationship with Walter Noble Burns?
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Post by devorerd on Oct 18, 2023 12:48:29 GMT -5
So I'm fairly certain that Dan will eventually show us one of the last correspondance's from Brushy to Morrison where he indicated who gave him the nickname "Bonney". If there are details on how Belle Reid came up with that, I believe that would be extremely valuable to this argument. IMO, names and all that, while interesting are not nearly as valuable as the actual geographic whereabouts. I must confess I find the argument that Brushy "read" all this infomation to be so farfetched. Look, even if one believes that to be true, what is the motive behind it? I work in HR, ALL actions that human beings take have motives behind them. I cannot find a motive behind the Brushy story? Fame...nope, money...nope....fantasy...negative...Psychotic/Crazy....Nope.....So with all this said, what other "motives" if you believe in the "book theory" would cause someone to create this story and actually try and get a pardon?
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