45colt
20 - 49 Posts
Posts: 33
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Post by 45colt on Jan 4, 2024 15:41:58 GMT -5
Wow. I wasn’t blocked from your group but I will be leaving it after that and cancelling my membership to your YouTube. I was not doxing anyone especially considering it’s a quick Google search, and literally available on the first page. I did not go looking for for it for any reason let alone negative ones, and I won’t stand for being spoken to like this just for sharing information that I found without giving any real specifics on said officer like badge number or address or birth information that I don’t have access to nor know. Goodbye. I was referring to someone who pulled his employment record and posted it online with negative comments. Detective Furia is a real person who is a public servant responding to a member of the community to help them with a genealogy project. Would you want your employment file published with negative (and inaccurate) comments? I think the reason people are hesitant to give their honest opinion is exactly because of things like this and if you are the person that did it then I'm glad to see you go. You may or may not know that there are people out there harassing anyone that comes out with their opinion. You may not be one of them and may have just honestly tried to shed light on things but you could have just asked me. I've been a member here for a long, long time and my email and other information is public. Detective Furia doesn't deserve to be maligned because he tried to help someone out. No hard feelings to you personally but if you are the person that did that I strongly disagree with your actions. Again, I didn't name you or identify you. You are the one saying it was you. I don't remember. We get thousands of comments and I remember very few of them. I don't know where you posted what you say you posted but if you were the one I was talking about you would know because I deleted the comment and banned the person. They may have taken your info and reposted it. I don't know. I stand by what I said, however.
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red
20 - 49 Posts
Posts: 26
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Post by red on Jan 18, 2024 23:20:55 GMT -5
If this is the picture I am thinking of, it is not Brushy. The hands look more like Millers. Shootseven posted bronc busters. The guy on the left on image two with the scarf. He looks exactly like Brushy. He has his wrist and thumbs. Build and face. He is also wearing a scarf across his shoulders. When that picture was taken you better have a rep to pull that off. The guy Dan thinks is Brushy in that picture; arms are to long and hands to big.
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Post by BTKFan on Jan 20, 2024 13:39:35 GMT -5
Dan doesn't own the photo so it's not his to sell. I have no idea what you mean by "clarity and depth" or "ifs, buts and maybes". Your comment itself lacks in clarity.
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Post by btkfan on Jan 20, 2024 13:49:41 GMT -5
Morley, I am about 99% sure it is Billy. The one thing in it that gives me pause is the comparative heights of alleged Billy and alleged Levi. In other photos of Levi he appears to be of average or greater height but in this photo he appears unusually short. That can be partially explained by the fact he is farther from the camera, but assuming that shovel he's holding is 4.5 to 5 feet tall then he can't be much over 5 ft. But then the NYPD expert wasn't sure that was Levi. Maybe it's not him in which case that doesn't prove the young fellow on the left is not Billy. I hope at some point there can be confirmation of who the older man is with the shovel. As for Billy himself, I totally agree this photo looks like both the BTK tintype "and" various photos of Brushy. Bottom line, at least for now, with what we know, that is an authentic photo of Billy The Kid. Dan probably needs to seek at least one more facial expert's opinion. Just to further cement the result. If a series of experts were shown the same photos and most of them came up with the same answers as the NYPD guy, then that would carry a lot of weight with those who are inclined to doubt the picture's authenticity. To address another point you brought up, there is at least "some" provenance. In that the photo was discovered in the area where Levi and Maggie settled after leaving Silver City. Stronger provenance as to how it changed hands over the years would also seal the deal.
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Post by btkfan on Jan 20, 2024 13:54:42 GMT -5
I appreciate all the support gang. This person Morley is a troll and may even be one of the people that are pushing their agenda in without identifying themselves. This crowd does a lot of dishonest and shady things. I'm actually pretty sure I know who it is. There are a lot of people that came out of nowhere a couple years ago and are tied to a guy who has been trying to extort me. One group in particular tries to raise money for their "community" work and I've been told their former CFO quit because he caught one of the people involved embezzling money. Remember, people like this always accuse others of what they do themselves. I don't raise money. I don't sell merchandise. I put out a book about 10 years ago and recently started a Youtube channel to share research and content. All these people that scream profiteering and hoax do everything they can to maximize merchandise, sales of their own stuff, etc. Its pretty lame. The truth is nobody really is offended by Youtube channel memberships and no one has this big of an issue watching a 40 minute documentary with Emilio Estevez for $4.99. You just wouldn't join or watch it if you weren't interested. You wouldn't attack the character of the producer that spent tens of thousands of dollars to make the documentary and share it with the public. The good news about these people is that its obvious who and what they are. Anyway, they lost their mouthpiece recently so they are trying to restructure and try again with a different group but nobody is buying it. They spam other peoples groups dishonestly looking for views. "Hey, here is a new Youtube channel, I think its going to be really good!" Not disclosing they are pushing their own channel. All that said, its kind of satisfying to watch them fail. Its also satisfying to correct them with facts publicly and watch people come over to the side of the truth and recognize them for what they are. Hopefully some of them end up in jail where they belong because there is some illegal stuff going on and the truth always comes out. Just watched the Documentary and I thought it was Awesome.
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Post by btkfan on Jan 20, 2024 13:59:40 GMT -5
Just watched the Documentary and I loved it. Cold stay in day here in Texas and it's was a great film to watch with some hot coffee and a fire going. I'm convinced. Great job!
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Post by btkfan on Jan 20, 2024 14:07:05 GMT -5
I appreciate all the support gang. This person Morley is a troll and may even be one of the people that are pushing their agenda in without identifying themselves. This crowd does a lot of dishonest and shady things. I'm actually pretty sure I know who it is. There are a lot of people that came out of nowhere a couple years ago and are tied to a guy who has been trying to extort me. One group in particular tries to raise money for their "community" work and I've been told their former CFO quit because he caught one of the people involved embezzling money. Remember, people like this always accuse others of what they do themselves. I don't raise money. I don't sell merchandise. I put out a book about 10 years ago and recently started a Youtube channel to share research and content. All these people that scream profiteering and hoax do everything they can to maximize merchandise, sales of their own stuff, etc. Its pretty lame. The truth is nobody really is offended by Youtube channel memberships and no one has this big of an issue watching a 40 minute documentary with Emilio Estevez for $4.99. You just wouldn't join or watch it if you weren't interested. You wouldn't attack the character of the producer that spent tens of thousands of dollars to make the documentary and share it with the public. The good news about these people is that its obvious who and what they are. Anyway, they lost their mouthpiece recently so they are trying to restructure and try again with a different group but nobody is buying it. They spam other peoples groups dishonestly looking for views. "Hey, here is a new Youtube channel, I think its going to be really good!" Not disclosing they are pushing their own channel. All that said, its kind of satisfying to watch them fail. Its also satisfying to correct them with facts publicly and watch people come over to the side of the truth and recognize them for what they are. Hopefully some of them end up in jail where they belong because there is some illegal stuff going on and the truth always comes out.
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45colt
20 - 49 Posts
Posts: 33
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Post by 45colt on Jan 25, 2024 14:56:11 GMT -5
Just a quick note on the Silver City Photo. A lot of these fake critics still don't "get it" and here is what they don't get. Whether anyone likes it or not a facial recognition expert for NYPD who has solved LOTS of tough cases with his skill has confirmed that a young Brushy Bill looks identical to a young Billy the Kid. That doesn't prove he was the Kid. It proves they look alike.
So all of these armchair historians that say they don't think they look alike are irrelevant. They say they don't see it like its a beauty contest and their opinion matters. Its not and it doesn't. Its like me saying Taylor Swift sucks. She obviously doesn't. She is crazy successful. It doesn't have to be my cup of tea but be honest about it. (I don't think she sucks by the way.) So, the facts are that based on the techniques employed by experts who study physiognomy they look alike. Like twins according to Detective Furia. It is what it is. And by the way to say that I influenced him when TWICE in the documentary he rejects a match (first with Levi Miller and then with William Antrim) is just trying to discredit the expert. This is what they always do. Its all a scam according to them. Morrison was a fraud, Detective Furia isn't credible. Give me a break. Nothing screams "I'm losing" more than how these people respond to powerful discoveries.
So, this is yet another tip of the scales in Brushy's favor. If they concluded he didn't look anything like him it would be an easy conversation but NONE of the arguments of the critics disqualify Roberts and the vast majority of evidence supports or allows for his claims to be true.
Regarding the rest of the details around the Silver City photo the documentary is just me bringing the viewer into the process around this discovery. So far we are seven months or so into this and I haven't gotten anyone with hard evidence to prove our hypothesis or research is wrong. I've heard a lot of nonsense like "its not Emilio, its AI" and "that's not Katherine Antrim" when we say in the documentary its not Katherine Antrim so I don't think these people are even paying attention. And let's be honest, seven months ago these armchair historians had never heard of Levi and Maggie Miller. Oh, they can run out now and try to catch up but they are behind the 8ball per usual.
So, was it taken in Silver City? I don't say that. I say it was taken possibly in the area around Silver City. Even the experts don't know for sure the specific details of the mining operations around there. There was a hydraulic mining company in Hillsboro. But the photo could have been taken somewhere else. Levi Miller owned interests in a LOT of mines.
There are more questions. Who wrote "Billy the Kid" on the back of the photo? We don't know. But Maggie Miller is from this area of Canada and it all seems to match. Anyone trying to say I failed to prove it, if you will forgive me for saying so, is an idiot. Not because they are wrong and I did prove it, but because they are missing the point of the documentary.
At the end of the day my modus operandi has always been to share my research and let the viewers decide. The critics think everyone is trying to prove their agenda because that is what they do but I don't think we are that way. I for one really don't care if Brushy was Billy the Kid or not. I just think he probably was.
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djmatt
20 - 49 Posts
Posts: 23
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Post by djmatt on Jan 26, 2024 7:23:40 GMT -5
Just a quick note on the Silver City Photo. A lot of these fake critics still don't "get it" and here is what they don't get. Whether anyone likes it or not a facial recognition expert for NYPD who has solved LOTS of tough cases with his skill has confirmed that a young Brushy Bill looks identical to a young Billy the Kid. That doesn't prove he was the Kid. It proves they look alike.
So all of these armchair historians that say they don't think they look alike are irrelevant. They say they don't see it like its a beauty contest and their opinion matters. Its not and it doesn't. Its like me saying Taylor Swift sucks. She obviously doesn't. She is crazy successful. It doesn't have to be my cup of tea but be honest about it. (I don't think she sucks by the way.) So, the facts are that based on the techniques employed by experts who study physiognomy they look alike. Like twins according to Detective Furia. It is what it is. And by the way to say that I influenced him when TWICE in the documentary he rejects a match (first with Levi Miller and then with William Antrim) is just trying to discredit the expert. This is what they always do. Its all a scam according to them. Morrison was a fraud, Detective Furia isn't credible. Give me a break. Nothing screams "I'm losing" more than how these people respond to powerful discoveries.
So, this is yet another tip of the scales in Brushy's favor. If they concluded he didn't look anything like him it would be an easy conversation but NONE of the arguments of the critics disqualify Roberts and the vast majority of evidence supports or allows for his claims to be true.
Regarding the rest of the details around the Silver City photo the documentary is just me bringing the viewer into the process around this discovery. So far we are seven months or so into this and I haven't gotten anyone with hard evidence to prove our hypothesis or research is wrong. I've heard a lot of nonsense like "its not Emilio, its AI" and "that's not Katherine Antrim" when we say in the documentary its not Katherine Antrim so I don't think these people are even paying attention. And let's be honest, seven months ago these armchair historians had never heard of Levi and Maggie Miller. Oh, they can run out now and try to catch up but they are behind the 8ball per usual.
So, was it taken in Silver City? I don't say that. I say it was taken possibly in the area around Silver City. Even the experts don't know for sure the specific details of the mining operations around there. There was a hydraulic mining company in Hillsboro. But the photo could have been taken somewhere else. Levi Miller owned interests in a LOT of mines.
There are more questions. Who wrote "Billy the Kid" on the back of the photo? We don't know. But Maggie Miller is from this area of Canada and it all seems to match. Anyone trying to say I failed to prove it, if you will forgive me for saying so, is an idiot. Not because they are wrong and I did prove it, but because they are missing the point of the documentary.
At the end of the day my modus operandi has always been to share my research and let the viewers decide. The critics think everyone is trying to prove their agenda because that is what they do but I don't think we are that way. I for one really don't care if Brushy was Billy the Kid or not. I just think he probably was.
[/quite] Dan, the crtics amaze me too. Theres a mountain of evidence that supports Brushy, anyone who doesnt see it, isnt really looking.
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Post by RonBk on Mar 18, 2024 11:52:02 GMT -5
According to Taylor County history center the first permanent residence in Buffalo Gap was built in 1875. However, I haven't seen any source that says there were no one at all residing in the area before 1875. More likely the opposite could be true? There were probably Buffalo hunters and others setting up camps in the area way before 1875 and possibly Brushy was born in one of those camps? It may also be he was born somewhere in the surrounding area and then was told they used to live in Buffalo Gap? Buffalo hunters must have been in the Buffalo Gap region before the area was settled. The village of Buffalo Gap was named for, and lies in, an area where there is a break in the Callahan divide, a series of hills that separate the watersheds of the Brazos River to the north and Colorado River to the south. It is rather difficult to believe that a pregnant woman would be taken to this area to give birth, exposed to the possibility of Comanche Indian raids as well as freezing night time temperatures in December. So how do you explain the fact that Oliver Milton Lee was born in Buffalo Gap in 1865? If no children were ever born in Buffalo Gap before 1875, then why was Oliver Lee born in that very same place in 1865? Furthermore I do find it to be a rather strange coincidence that Oliver Lee and Brushy were both born in Buffalo Gap. Oliver Lee was a suspect in the murder of Albert Jennings Fountain in 1896 and considering Fountain had previously represented the Kid back in 1881, the question arises if there was a connection between Oliver Lee and Brushy. Could it be Brushy was involved in the murder of Fountain?
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Post by MissyS on Mar 19, 2024 1:39:04 GMT -5
Buffalo hunters must have been in the Buffalo Gap region before the area was settled. The village of Buffalo Gap was named for, and lies in, an area where there is a break in the Callahan divide, a series of hills that separate the watersheds of the Brazos River to the north and Colorado River to the south. It is rather difficult to believe that a pregnant woman would be taken to this area to give birth, exposed to the possibility of Comanche Indian raids as well as freezing night time temperatures in December. So how do you explain the fact that Oliver Milton Lee was born in Buffalo Gap in 1865? If no children were ever born in Buffalo Gap before 1875, then why was Oliver Lee born in that very same place in 1865? Furthermore I do find it to be a rather strange coincidence that Oliver Lee and Brushy were both born in Buffalo Gap. Oliver Lee was a suspect in the murder of Albert Jennings Fountain in 1896 and considering Fountain had previously represented the Kid back in 1881, the question arises if there was a connection between Oliver Lee and Brushy. Could it be Brushy was involved in the murder of Fountain? I believe it’s very possible that Oliver Lee knew the Kid or Brushy. I posted an 1903 article sometime ago about Oliver M Lee selling horses to three men in El Paso, and one of them a Wm. McCarty. chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn87090065/1903-03-19/ed-1/seq-1/print/image_681x648_from_302%2C1487_to_1397%2C2530/Also one of the three men named I.C. Graham is interesting because I found a reference that Jesse Evans may have used the name Jesse Graham as an alias name. One or more of the men that bought horses from Oliver Lee was from North Dakota, and I believed thats the same state that Joe Hine’s brother was located. Could there be a connection with the I.C. Graham that bought horses from Oliver Lee and Jesse Evans?
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Post by Wayne Land on Mar 19, 2024 14:36:09 GMT -5
This idea is from way outside the box but does anyone know what Brushy's middle initial "L" stood for? Brushy normally used the alias Oliver "L" Roberts rather than Oliver "P" Roberts yet to my knowledge he never said what the L stood for. Every time I see anything about Oliver Lee it makes me wonder if there was a connection between the alias "Oliver L. Roberts" and "Oliver Lee"? Just a coincidence?
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Post by nmjames on Mar 21, 2024 2:40:42 GMT -5
RonBk,
Oliver M. Lee was not born in Buffalo Gap, Texas. He was born 1865 in Burnet County (Burnet) Texas. The family didn't move to Taylor County until after Olive Lee Sr. died about 1878. You can find them on the 1870 census in Burnet County, TX. and then on the 1880 census in Taylor County, TX. They left Texas about 1884 and can be found in New Mexico on the 1885 census.
nmjames
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Post by RonBk on Mar 21, 2024 14:48:11 GMT -5
James,
What is your source for the claim Lee was not born in Buffalo Gap? Every single tree on ancestry as well as his Wikipedia page says he was born in Buffalo Gap.
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Post by nmjames on Mar 21, 2024 15:48:09 GMT -5
RonBk,
I don't know where you are looking on Ancestry but if you will look at the 1860 and 1870 census for Burnet County Texas you should be able to find the information. You can then go to the 1880 census for Taylor County Texas and find Oliver Lee, his mother and his half-brother R.P. Altman. You should also be able to find where Oliver Lee the father owned land and more information. If you can find a copy of Oliver Lee's death certificate, his daughter said he was born in Burnet County Texas.
If you can't find it, let me know and I will try to help you.
Thanks, nmjames
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