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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 4, 2014 12:05:45 GMT -5
I started a new thread about it. You'll find it near the top of the home page, "The truth from John Poe".
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Post by nascarfan on Nov 3, 2014 16:14:23 GMT -5
If Poe recanted, he would have called his own book a lie. He wrote a book about Billy The Kid called "The Death of Billy the Kid," published in 1919 which describes Pat Garrett killing Billy (although it gives a slightly different account). Does anyone have proof of a recant? Where does that story come from?
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Post by nascarfan on Nov 3, 2014 16:15:18 GMT -5
If Poe recanted, he would have called his own book a lie. He wrote a book about Billy The Kid called "The Death of Billy the Kid," published in 1919 which describes Pat Garrett killing Billy (although it gives a slightly different account). Does anyone have proof of a recant? Where does that story come from?
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Post by Brandon on Apr 28, 2021 18:28:29 GMT -5
Edith also stated that her father asked Poe why he backed up Garrett's account ? and he was told that Garrett violated an unwritten law at the time and that is that a man be given a chance to surrender before being shot, this is evidently why he felt Billy was murdered or shot in cold blood?, he also said Garrett had begged them to uphold him because he said by doing so it would protect the name of an innocent young woman from scandal which was also an unwritten law at the time, and both men (McKinney and Poe) thought they knew of whom Garrett was referring to protect so they did so and later they found they were wrong, Poe then went on to say if anyone needed protection it was him by saying that after he wrote the account he did , when he wrote it he was still under the impression him and McKinney were justified in backing Garrett's story. Later Mckinney's son also backed Poe' s statement. I wondered anyway why Poe would be scared of one man who was only armed with a knife while he and his partner were fully armed? , if he wasnt covering up for Garrett then this may support that Billy must have had a gun that night? The unwritten law of surrender doesn't really make sense to me because I never read anywhere that Garrett allowed OFolliard or Bowdre a chance to surrender first before he shot them and there wasn't much if anything said that they were murdered in cold blood? Garrett's account of the shooting of Billy changed alot but the accounts of how Bowdre and OFolliard was shot seemed to never change. For example Garrett told Emerson Hough that he was sitting in a chair by the bed when he shot Billy, and Pete Maxwell said he was sitting on the bed, Garrett said the shooting happened close to midnight however Paco Anaya said in his book " I buried Billy " that Garrett lied about the time that it was closer to 8 PM and that Billy had on his shoes when he was killed and the only thing missing was his hat and vest. Garrett obviously lied to cover something?? Also I want to add that both the Eve Ball interviews are in the Westerner magazine spring issue 1975, if you can find a copy the article of Frank Coe is interesting and there's a very rare maybe undocumented picture of Billy The Kid published along with the article and also a photo of Frank Coe and one of his daughter and a few others, I wanted to post a pic of them but I wasn't for sure of the copyright laws?, the photo of Billy has just as much chance of being genuine as any because it was submitted courtesy of the aurthor which I can believe Eve Ball could very well have been given a photo of Billy by the many persons she interviewed that knew him, and could even have been given to her by Edith for the article? It would be interesting to do a photo comparison of it and Brushy? The fbi did a photo reconciliation of brushy in 1950 and the billy the kid photo and it was a 93% match. Brushy was Billy. All you morons who believe everything u are told do some research. Brushy had all the tattoos the kid had, knew how tye old Lincoln county courthouse looked piece by piece, had Billy tye kid's surviving friends when sign an affidavit saying he was the real kid, has many people after he supposed was killed saying they seen him and talked with him, poe even Said you shot the wrong man and it's written in the Lincoln county historical book in the sheriff's office, and billy the kid was friends with oat garrett. Of course garret gonna denie and write a book. How else would he help tye kid escape. You doubters are dumb as hell.
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Post by chivato88 on Apr 28, 2021 18:46:49 GMT -5
Edith also stated that her father asked Poe why he backed up Garrett's account ? and he was told that Garrett violated an unwritten law at the time and that is that a man be given a chance to surrender before being shot, this is evidently why he felt Billy was murdered or shot in cold blood?, he also said Garrett had begged them to uphold him because he said by doing so it would protect the name of an innocent young woman from scandal which was also an unwritten law at the time, and both men (McKinney and Poe) thought they knew of whom Garrett was referring to protect so they did so and later they found they were wrong, Poe then went on to say if anyone needed protection it was him by saying that after he wrote the account he did , when he wrote it he was still under the impression him and McKinney were justified in backing Garrett's story. Later Mckinney's son also backed Poe' s statement. I wondered anyway why Poe would be scared of one man who was only armed with a knife while he and his partner were fully armed? , if he wasnt covering up for Garrett then this may support that Billy must have had a gun that night? The unwritten law of surrender doesn't really make sense to me because I never read anywhere that Garrett allowed OFolliard or Bowdre a chance to surrender first before he shot them and there wasn't much if anything said that they were murdered in cold blood? Garrett's account of the shooting of Billy changed alot but the accounts of how Bowdre and OFolliard was shot seemed to never change. For example Garrett told Emerson Hough that he was sitting in a chair by the bed when he shot Billy, and Pete Maxwell said he was sitting on the bed, Garrett said the shooting happened close to midnight however Paco Anaya said in his book " I buried Billy " that Garrett lied about the time that it was closer to 8 PM and that Billy had on his shoes when he was killed and the only thing missing was his hat and vest. Garrett obviously lied to cover something?? Also I want to add that both the Eve Ball interviews are in the Westerner magazine spring issue 1975, if you can find a copy the article of Frank Coe is interesting and there's a very rare maybe undocumented picture of Billy The Kid published along with the article and also a photo of Frank Coe and one of his daughter and a few others, I wanted to post a pic of them but I wasn't for sure of the copyright laws?, the photo of Billy has just as much chance of being genuine as any because it was submitted courtesy of the aurthor which I can believe Eve Ball could very well have been given a photo of Billy by the many persons she interviewed that knew him, and could even have been given to her by Edith for the article? It would be interesting to do a photo comparison of it and Brushy? The fbi did a photo reconciliation of brushy in 1950 and the billy the kid photo and it was a 93% match. Brushy was Billy. All you morons who believe everything u are told do some research. Brushy had all the tattoos the kid had, knew how tye old Lincoln county courthouse looked piece by piece, had Billy tye kid's surviving friends when sign an affidavit saying he was the real kid, has many people after he supposed was killed saying they seen him and talked with him, poe even Said you shot the wrong man and it's written in the Lincoln county historical book in the sheriff's office, and billy the kid was friends with oat garrett. Of course garret gonna denie and write a book. How else would he help tye kid escape. You doubters are dumb as hell. 1st of all be respectful and second learn to write, my eyes are bleeding.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Apr 28, 2021 19:46:43 GMT -5
"The fbi did a photo reconciliation of brushy in 1950 and the billy the kid photo and it was a 93% match."
Appears that Brandon's claim is a blue sky, undocumented opinion presented as fact.
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Post by RonBk on Apr 29, 2021 0:39:53 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see those photos. Perhaps it would be regarded as "fair use" to post photos of Billy the kid on a research forum like this one? There is no commercial interest here so why shouldnt it be fair use? Do we have any member who is familiar with copyright law? Or perhaps someone who knows a lawyer they could ask?
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Post by DanJohno on Apr 29, 2021 20:38:36 GMT -5
Oat Garrett? I like it. From now on I am officially referring to Pat Garrett as Oat Garrett aswell.
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Post by kerrry on May 5, 2021 23:05:32 GMT -5
John Poe ended his life of much respect -and substance....like Garrett he was a Mason and like Garrett - he had no idea of what when down when BTK escaped the House killing Garrett's two deputies.... Poe could only repeat the narrative he got from Garrett - that BTK broke into the armory somehow and the rest is history - no mention of what happened to Bell -no mention of any outhouse gun plant...no real knowledge of what really happened....listening outsde Pete Maxwell's bedroom - John Poe did not hear Pete Maxwell say to Pat Garrett- that's him...he did not see Maxwell exit the room first contrary to Pat's account. Unlke Pat - John looked to be Sherriff of Lincoln and after the service he provided Pat Garrett at the acclaimed killing of BTK - Poe was surprise when Pat supported Dolan for Sherriff instead of him.... For Pat Garrett -BTK was a stepping stone to Sherriff - killing BTK and Dolan was his stepping stone to Republican senator. Pat Garrett was an ambitious gambler and confidence man - always projecting himself beyond his real capabilies and station in life...unfortunately -always losing...even history only ever begrudgingly accepted him as a hero.
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Post by leeb on May 6, 2021 13:45:42 GMT -5
John Poe ended his life of much respect -and substance....like Garrett he was a Mason and like Garrett - he had no idea of what when down when BTK escaped the House killing Garrett's two deputies.... Poe could only repeat the narrative he got from Garrett - that BTK broke into the armory somehow and the rest is history - no mention of what happened to Bell -no mention of any outhouse gun plant...no real knowledge of what really happened....listening outsde Pete Maxwell's bedroom - John Poe did not hear Pete Maxwell say to Pat Garrett- that's him...he did not see Maxwell exit the room first contrary to Pat's account. Unlke Pat - John looked to be Sherriff of Lincoln and after the service he provided Pat Garrett at the acclaimed killing of BTK - Poe was surprise when Pat supported Dolan for Sherriff instead of him.... For Pat Garrett -BTK was a stepping stone to Sherriff - killing BTK and Dolan was his stepping stone to Republican senator. Pat Garrett was an ambitious gambler and confidence man - always projecting himself beyond his real capabilies and station in life...unfortunately -always losing...even history only ever begrudgingly accepted him as a hero. 'No real knowledge of what really happened '..mmm
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Post by kerry on May 6, 2021 20:39:12 GMT -5
If Bob Olinger had avoided BTK's narrow window of opportunity - the chances are Lincoln would have had a vacant lot today instead of one of the most famous historical buildings in New Mexico...Iam sure Bob would have had great satisfaction in burning the House down with BTK trapped inside - just as they had done with the McSween house ! Poe never heard Maxwell identify BTK before Pat shot the man inside the doorway -but Garrett made this point in his book as if he needed confirmation of his decision to shoot...Iam sure had Pat been sure of his target he would not have mentioned poor Maxwell -who was not only ill but also known for his timidity(as per his epitaph) For Pete to have muttered anything at all while facing a gun fight in his bedroom - would have been very unlikely...as it was he was nearly hit by the rebound of Pat's second shot while he was still in bed and Pat was making a rush for the door -consequently Poe said it was Garrett who came out first and when Maxwell came out he raised his rifle only to have it knocked down by Garrett to avoid Maxwell being shot by mistake as Poe didn't know either Maxwell or BTK by sight..
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Post by RonBk on May 6, 2021 23:39:29 GMT -5
Those are very good points Kerry. Its understandable why Garrett came up with the story that Maxwell had identified Billy prior to the shooting occurred. He knew he had killed the wrong guy and was desperate to cover it up. Its a fact Garrett knew Billy quiet well and he would not have needed any help identifying him in a ten yard fight.
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Post by kerry on May 7, 2021 7:26:53 GMT -5
Well Ron - maybe I should give up while Iam ahead....was it enough for Pat to fake BTK's death for Brushy to stay out of the lime light for so long and not go on a photo shoot to expose Pat as a fraud and laughing stock of New Mexico ? Being condemned to death was,a powerful incentive to stay quiet in the US....but BTK for some reason hung around Fort Sumner quite fearlessly - did Pat Garrett have an ace up his sleeve to ensure BTK's co operation after he had once again -for the forth time - failed to kill him ? Was there information Brushy kept to himself until death -
that was off the table for Morrison and any attempt for a pardon....perhaps what Brushy didn't say may be more important than what he did ...
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Post by RonBk on May 7, 2021 9:04:20 GMT -5
Yes thats possible, but what kind of secret? Perhaps something neither of them wanted to be known? I get the feeling from this photo that there was something special about their relation, perhaps a secret they shared that made a special bond. If this photo even depicts them, which we dont know for sure. But I like to think this photo may be real.
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Post by tboor74 on May 7, 2021 9:17:55 GMT -5
Are we now trying to say that the death was faked and BTK stayed quiet as him and Oaty like to "share a quiche"?
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