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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 6, 2009 12:36:45 GMT -5
I've read on several websites that Deputy Poe later recanted his version of events on the night of July 14, 1881 and claimed that Garrett actually shot the wrong man. I suspect this is based on some confusion over his initial reaction as Garrett exited Maxwell's room vs. a "recanting" of his initial story agreeing somewhat with Garrett. But maybe Poe did recant? I've been searching but have not found anything yet. Does anyone know the facts regarding what Poe said in this regard and when?
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Post by jritter on Feb 23, 2010 16:01:13 GMT -5
If Poe recanted, he would have called his own book a lie. He wrote a book about Billy The Kid called "The Death of Billy the Kid," published in 1919 which describes Pat Garrett killing Billy (although it gives a slightly different account). Does anyone have proof of a recant? Where does that story come from?
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Post by MissyS on May 5, 2014 23:56:13 GMT -5
I've read on several websites that Deputy Poe later recanted his version of events on the night of July 14, 1881 and claimed that Garrett actually shot the wrong man. I suspect this is based on some confusion over his initial reaction as Garrett exited Maxwell's room vs. a "recanting" of his initial story agreeing somewhat with Garrett. But maybe Poe did recant? I've been searching but have not found anything yet. Does anyone know the facts regarding what Poe said in this regard and when? Wayne, I believe Poe had a cousin that gave an interview in 1938 to D.D. Sharp, the interview is in the book " They Knew Billy the Kid, interviews with old time New Mexicans", its strange to me why the interview refers to him as Mr. Poe no first name? it says hes the cousin of Deputy John Poe that was on the porch the night Garrett supposedly shot Billy. Poe said in the interview that he didnt believe Billy died that night because he believed a man with a price on his head wouldnt have asked Quien Es?, he would have shot first, also interestingly Mr. Poe said another reason was because no one was allowed to see the body except his cousin John Poe, Pete Maxwell and family, Pat Garrett, someone named McKine?, an old mexican woman and a woman that was supposed to be and may have been Billy's mother from Silver City, he said Frank Coe told him some 6 or 8 years before the interview which would have been around 1930 or 1932 that he could saddle his horse at sunrise at his ranch on the Ruidoso near the resort there, and eat supper with the Kid at sundown. Anyway maybe this interview confused Deputy John Poe with his cousin since theres no first name only Mr. Poe, I wonder if maybe Mr. Poe may have been Deputy John Poe and wanted to get information out about that night in a kinda descrete way?, but kinda sounds like Deputy John Poe may have talked to his cousin about that night and somethings that were discussed gave his cousin doubts?
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 16, 2014 21:05:26 GMT -5
I just came across this interview as reported by author/historian Leon Metz. I was following your info about Eve Ball when I found this written about Eve Ball's interview with Frank Coe's daughter, Edith. Eve Ball had passed this story on to Metz.
"Mrs. Coe wouldn't allow the Lincoln County war or B'illy the Kid to be mentioned in the house; they never discussed it in the home. Whatever Frank Coe had done in his other life, he was very considerate of his wife. But when he would go out with his daughters he would point out, "This place is where we hanged a Negro,"or so on. Well, Edith drove her father down to Roswell after he went jnto bank. Mr. Coe was pretty affluent. When he went into the bank, Mr. Poe saw him come into the bank and sent a clerk to invite him into this office. Edith went in with him and Frank got to asking what really happened at Fort Sumner the night that the Kid was killed. And Edith said her father never had the slightest doubt but that the Kid was killed. You'll hear stories all over the country of how Frank and George Coe would make a trip to Arizona or Montana or somewhere to see some man who claimed to be Bi11y the Kid. Edith said that was positively untrue. Both her father and George his cousin, believed that Billy was killed. They got to talking to Poe about this and Poe had written this little paper, THE DEATH 0F BILLY THE KID, and he had substantiated Pat Garrett's story. But he told Frank Coe that day that they had all lied to protect the reputation of a woman, and positively it was not Paulita Maxwell. What would that have to do with it, lying to protect a woman? Well, no one went into details but Billy was evidently there visiting this woman. She was a relative of the Maxwells but it was not Paulita MaxweIl, Pedro’s sister."
I think it is important to note that John Poe told Frank Poe that he and Garrett had lied about that night. Note, it does not say that Poe insisted Billy had been killed. The interview points out how George and Frank Coe believed Billy had been killed (or at least said they did). All it quotes Deputy Poe saying is that they had lied to protect a woman. I assume that means to protect her reputation. If they would lie about "why" Billy was on the porch that night, then wouldn't they also lie about whether it was actually Billy who was shot? Later in the same document it says Poe claimed Garrett just shot him "in cold blood". I assume that means as opposed to any kind of self defense.
I believe this story because I don't think Leon Metz, Eve Ball or Coe's daughter would have lied about this.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 16, 2014 22:03:17 GMT -5
Here's another excerpt from that interview between Metz and Ball as she relates what Edith Coe had told her.
"This story had always been that J.W. Poe had never seen the Kid and wouldn't recognize him. He said he did recognize him and scared to death. And of course the other man, McKinney recognized him because he had known him a long time. He said Pat Garrett deliberately shot him down and it was nothing but cold-blooded murder."
Now tell me, if Poe "did" recognize the kid then why did he accuse Garrett of having shot the wrong man? Unless the man who was shot really was not Billy.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 18, 2014 9:29:38 GMT -5
<< Immediately following the shooting, according to both Garrett’s and Poe’s accounts, Poe’s first words to Garrett were “the Kid would not have come here; you have shot the wrong man.” This is a complete 180 turn from Poe’s previous stance. He had gone from being positive Billy was somewhere nearby to jumping to the conclusion that Garrett had killed the wrong man simply because the real Kid would not have been around Maxwell’s. >>
Now to further complicate this Poe statement, I find that Frank Coe's daughter Edith said she heard a conversation between her father and John W. Poe in which Poe stated he "did" recognize the kid and "scared to death" and that Garrett shot him down in "cold blooded murder".
Try to follow my logic here. This one is tricky. One or more of these statements is untrue. Which one(s) are we to believe? I suspect if Poe ever told the truth about that night he would have told it to someone like Frank Coe, in confidence, not thinking Edith would later share what she heard. But that presents a major, major conflict of logic. Simply, if Poe did recognize the kid that night, why wouldn't he have said so immediately and why would he not say so in the book he later wrote. I think Poe "did" recognize the man who was shot and the only reason he never publicly said so was because he knew the man was "not" Billy just as both he and Garrett reported his first words were “the Kid would not have come here; you have shot the wrong man.”
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Post by MissyS on Jul 19, 2014 15:22:03 GMT -5
Edith also stated that her father asked Poe why he backed up Garrett's account ? and he was told that Garrett violated an unwritten law at the time and that is that a man be given a chance to surrender before being shot, this is evidently why he felt Billy was murdered or shot in cold blood?, he also said Garrett had begged them to uphold him because he said by doing so it would protect the name of an innocent young woman from scandal which was also an unwritten law at the time, and both men (McKinney and Poe) thought they knew of whom Garrett was referring to protect so they did so and later they found they were wrong, Poe then went on to say if anyone needed protection it was him by saying that after he wrote the account he did , when he wrote it he was still under the impression him and McKinney were justified in backing Garrett's story. Later Mckinney's son also backed Poe' s statement. I wondered anyway why Poe would be scared of one man who was only armed with a knife while he and his partner were fully armed? , if he wasnt covering up for Garrett then this may support that Billy must have had a gun that night? The unwritten law of surrender doesn't really make sense to me because I never read anywhere that Garrett allowed OFolliard or Bowdre a chance to surrender first before he shot them and there wasn't much if anything said that they were murdered in cold blood? Garrett's account of the shooting of Billy changed alot but the accounts of how Bowdre and OFolliard was shot seemed to never change. For example Garrett told Emerson Hough that he was sitting in a chair by the bed when he shot Billy, and Pete Maxwell said he was sitting on the bed, Garrett said the shooting happened close to midnight however Paco Anaya said in his book " I buried Billy " that Garrett lied about the time that it was closer to 8 PM and that Billy had on his shoes when he was killed and the only thing missing was his hat and vest. Garrett obviously lied to cover something?? Also I want to add that both the Eve Ball interviews are in the Westerner magazine spring issue 1975, if you can find a copy the article of Frank Coe is interesting and there's a very rare maybe undocumented picture of Billy The Kid published along with the article and also a photo of Frank Coe and one of his daughter and a few others, I wanted to post a pic of them but I wasn't for sure of the copyright laws?, the photo of Billy has just as much chance of being genuine as any because it was submitted courtesy of the aurthor which I can believe Eve Ball could very well have been given a photo of Billy by the many persons she interviewed that knew him, and could even have been given to her by Edith for the article? It would be interesting to do a photo comparison of it and Brushy?
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 19, 2014 20:53:55 GMT -5
Thanks so much for sharing all that Missy. I'll try and see if I can get a copy of that magazine. I'd love to see that photo.
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Post by MissyS on Jul 19, 2014 22:01:25 GMT -5
Thanks so much for sharing all that Missy. I'll try and see if I can get a copy of that magazine. I'd love to see that photo. Your very welcome Wayne, that magazine doesn't say on the cover that it has any articles inside by Eve Ball or Frank or Edith Coe, I believe it has about Poncho Villa on the cover?, it was .75 cents back in 1975, I didnt know about this article when I posted about Poe's cousin. Theres a book by Emerson Hough it was first published in1907 "The Story of the Outlaw" its a good read, he knew Garrett and took a trip with him to see Billy's gravesite and Fort Sumner what was left of it anyway, and Garrett tells him in detail what happened that night.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 20, 2014 9:59:50 GMT -5
I've written to the "Old West Shop" which published "The Westerner" and requested a back issue. If they don't have one then I'm going to ask permission to copy the photo and/or article so maybe you could then send it to me. I was able however, to get a free "kindle edition" of the Hough book. I never had known about that Garrett interview. Again, thank you, thank you. A very interesting comment in this version of events is that Garrett said the Kid did indeed get off a shot after Garrett's first shot but that it went high. He then also says he, Garrett, fired a second shot. Now, that makes three shots and I had always thought the accepted story was that Garrett fired twice and the Kid never fired. Weren't there some Sumner residents that said they heard three shots? Obviously if the Kid did fire, then he did have a gun but I have serious doubts whether he had a gun at all. Also, Garrett says he was sitting in a chair at the time.
I'll say this though. Garrett makes more of an impression here that his story is the truth. Yet, he contradicts some of what he said in his book. I'm going to have to read this several times more.
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Post by MissyS on Jul 20, 2014 14:00:13 GMT -5
Wayne Im glad you were able to get the Emerson Hough book on Kindle , you will enjoy it , it not only covers the Garrett shooting but also details about Blazers Mill, and also what I like he wrote about other Outlaws. About the gun, in Paco Anaya's book he also said Billy had a gun that night and Deluvina placed it on the bureau and she placed the knife in the bureau.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 20, 2014 14:31:30 GMT -5
Yes, I've read that before about the gun. But I can't help but question it because of Poe's statement that Billy was fastening his pants as he approached the house. I suppose it is possible to hold onto a gun and a knife while one fastens their pants.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 21, 2014 10:08:09 GMT -5
Missy,
I found it. Turns out there are two different magazines, one called "The Westerner" which is what I searched for before and one called "Westerner" which is the correct one I should have been looking for. I've ordered a copy from eBay of Spring 1975 featuring the story on Pancho Villa. Can't wait to see the photo, etc.
Thanks again.
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Post by MissyS on Jul 24, 2014 10:06:11 GMT -5
Sorry Wayne, I didn't know there was a Magazine called "The Westerner" I should have been more specific. Glad you were able to find the right one.
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Post by marchus on Aug 4, 2014 10:26:30 GMT -5
I would love to see that photo!!! Do we know if it is possible at all to post now? Please keep us informed on the article too Wayne after you have read it. I would be curious to hear your take.
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