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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 6, 2023 22:20:05 GMT -5
youtu.be/M5s5zuDlxfM?si=hqcWN8EVrNaXxDFeThe key argument that this man makes, in short, is that Brushy Bill Roberts looked too young to be Billy The Kid and brings up the censuses to "confirm" that Brushy was in his 70s instead of his 90s as he claimed. He says that there's no way that a man in his 40s could possibly pass for a man in his 20s, in reference to Brushy's story of taking over the identity of his cousin Oliver Pleasant Roberts. Now, this is an experiment. Only Wayne knows my age because of registering to the forum with my birthdate. I'm going to post a picture of myself, and I want you to guess my age. I do this because seldom does anyone get it right and are shocked when I tell them my age.  Once there is a consensus, I will follow up on the matter. Or add more photos to get a better estimate of my appearance. Anyways, in my experience in life I have met people who looked either younger than they were or older than they are. Everybody ages different. So the argument I find to be somewhat weak, especially when you look at pictures of Henry Roberts in old age looking (imo) younger than he was. My great uncle was in his 80s and looked in his 60s until his health went sideways and began to look his age. So the idea of someone looking younger is a disqualifier is not a good argument. After all, the real Billy The Kid looked younger than in his 20s. Which brings me to the census argument the man tried to make. The real Billy The Kid also had shifting age(s) whenever he appeared in a census. In one of the last censuses he appeared in, if I'm not mistaken, he gave himself as being either 15 or 18 years old. So clearly he was a man who used his youthful appearance to evade detection. In some censuses he said he was older than he was, too. There has been some debate by even Brushy skeptics as to whether The Kid really was 21, or whether he was really born in New York. This is still a matter of contention by the "Billy died in 1881" crowd, so for all we know The Kid was younger or even older than stated. I'm reminded of the story where The Kid was given clothes from a 10 year old boy and they fit him. Now either The Kid was extremely scrawny or he might've been younger than stated, or some combination of the two. Lastly, there was a comment made by Wild West Extravaganza that Brushy didn't start telling tales and changing his age in the censuses until after his parents died. Henry Roberts died in 1924, as did Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Heath. But, if I'm not mistaken one of the researchers here on the forum found an article on Brushy from the early 1920s mentioning he won a rodeo title and was an Indian fighter. I might be wrong on that early 1920s article, but I look at it as a challenge. If there is an article prior to 1924 mentioning him then that leaves a giant hole in the mans assertion. Anyways, this is RUFUS aka WhisperingBillyBarlow Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 6, 2023 22:31:26 GMT -5
Note: August 11, 1916 in the Sulphur Springs Post the article "Riding Roberts" mentions Brushy Bill Roberts as the son of H.O. Roberts among other tidbits of information. So, contrary to the assertion that Brushy was telling tall stories, etc until after his parents were dead it seems Roberts did have exploits prior to his parents death.  The most interesting thing about the article is the assertion that he was gone for fifteen years. TexasTruthTeller knows the censuses better than me, but, if we have a newspaper source 40 some odd years prior to him coming out as The Kid asserting he was all over the country traveling with whoever John Nunday was and wasn't around for 15 years... it raises all sorts of questions as to the earlier censuses. Unless the article means he was absent from the locality of Sulphur Springs for fifteen years. But even at that, TTT has mentioned Sulphur Springs before in censuses I think. It would beg the question, "If he wasn't in the area for 15 years and yet an Oliver Roberts was on the census during this timeframe, then who the hell is Brushy Bill Roberts? Who was Oliver Pleasant Roberts? Or was Roberts telling lies about himself even back then?", or could it be a matter of him coming back periodically when it was census time? Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all |
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Post by DanJohno on Nov 8, 2023 11:56:13 GMT -5
youtu.be/M5s5zuDlxfM?si=hqcWN8EVrNaXxDFeThe key argument that this man makes, in short, is that Brushy Bill Roberts looked too young to be Billy The Kid and brings up the censuses to "confirm" that Brushy was in his 70s instead of his 90s as he claimed. He says that there's no way that a man in his 40s could possibly pass for a man in his 20s, in reference to Brushy's story of taking over the identity of his cousin Oliver Pleasant Roberts. Now, this is an experiment. Only Wayne knows my age because of registering to the forum with my birthdate. I'm going to post a picture of myself, and I want you to guess my age. I do this because seldom does anyone get it right and are shocked when I tell them my age. Once there is a consensus, I will follow up on the matter. Or add more photos to get a better estimate of my appearance. Anyways, in my experience in life I have met people who looked either younger than they were or older than they are. Everybody ages different. So the argument I find to be somewhat weak, especially when you look at pictures of Henry Roberts in old age looking (imo) younger than he was. My great uncle was in his 80s and looked in his 60s until his health went sideways and began to look his age. So the idea of someone looking younger is a disqualifier is not a good argument. After all, the real Billy The Kid looked younger than in his 20s. Which brings me to the census argument the man tried to make. The real Billy The Kid also had shifting age(s) whenever he appeared in a census. In one of the last censuses he appeared in, if I'm not mistaken, he gave himself as being either 15 or 18 years old. So clearly he was a man who used his youthful appearance to evade detection. In some censuses he said he was older than he was, too. There has been some debate by even Brushy skeptics as to whether The Kid really was 21, or whether he was really born in New York. This is still a matter of contention by the "Billy died in 1881" crowd, so for all we know The Kid was younger or even older than stated. I'm reminded of the story where The Kid was given clothes from a 10 year old boy and they fit him. Now either The Kid was extremely scrawny or he might've been younger than stated, or some combination of the two. Lastly, there was a comment made by Wild West Extravaganza that Brushy didn't start telling tales and changing his age in the censuses until after his parents died. Henry Roberts died in 1924, as did Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Heath. But, if I'm not mistaken one of the researchers here on the forum found an article on Brushy from the early 1920s mentioning he won a rodeo title and was an Indian fighter. I might be wrong on that early 1920s article, but I look at it as a challenge. If there is an article prior to 1924 mentioning him then that leaves a giant hole in the mans assertion. Anyways, this is RUFUS aka WhisperingBillyBarlow Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all From memory I think your original profile said you were born in 1983 |
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 8, 2023 19:37:20 GMT -5
youtu.be/M5s5zuDlxfM?si=hqcWN8EVrNaXxDFeThe key argument that this man makes, in short, is that Brushy Bill Roberts looked too young to be Billy The Kid and brings up the censuses to "confirm" that Brushy was in his 70s instead of his 90s as he claimed. He says that there's no way that a man in his 40s could possibly pass for a man in his 20s, in reference to Brushy's story of taking over the identity of his cousin Oliver Pleasant Roberts. Now, this is an experiment. Only Wayne knows my age because of registering to the forum with my birthdate. I'm going to post a picture of myself, and I want you to guess my age. I do this because seldom does anyone get it right and are shocked when I tell them my age. Once there is a consensus, I will follow up on the matter. Or add more photos to get a better estimate of my appearance. Anyways, in my experience in life I have met people who looked either younger than they were or older than they are. Everybody ages different. So the argument I find to be somewhat weak, especially when you look at pictures of Henry Roberts in old age looking (imo) younger than he was. My great uncle was in his 80s and looked in his 60s until his health went sideways and began to look his age. So the idea of someone looking younger is a disqualifier is not a good argument. After all, the real Billy The Kid looked younger than in his 20s. Which brings me to the census argument the man tried to make. The real Billy The Kid also had shifting age(s) whenever he appeared in a census. In one of the last censuses he appeared in, if I'm not mistaken, he gave himself as being either 15 or 18 years old. So clearly he was a man who used his youthful appearance to evade detection. In some censuses he said he was older than he was, too. There has been some debate by even Brushy skeptics as to whether The Kid really was 21, or whether he was really born in New York. This is still a matter of contention by the "Billy died in 1881" crowd, so for all we know The Kid was younger or even older than stated. I'm reminded of the story where The Kid was given clothes from a 10 year old boy and they fit him. Now either The Kid was extremely scrawny or he might've been younger than stated, or some combination of the two. Lastly, there was a comment made by Wild West Extravaganza that Brushy didn't start telling tales and changing his age in the censuses until after his parents died. Henry Roberts died in 1924, as did Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Heath. But, if I'm not mistaken one of the researchers here on the forum found an article on Brushy from the early 1920s mentioning he won a rodeo title and was an Indian fighter. I might be wrong on that early 1920s article, but I look at it as a challenge. If there is an article prior to 1924 mentioning him then that leaves a giant hole in the mans assertion. Anyways, this is RUFUS aka WhisperingBillyBarlow Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all From memory I think your original profile said you were born in 1983 For purposes of this thread I will not confirm or deny a birthdate. It's an exercise in guessing ages from eyesight alone. You may or may not be far off the mark. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all |
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Post by RonBk on Nov 9, 2023 0:49:09 GMT -5
Maybe around 40? To be fair I was going to say 52 but after seeing DanJohnos post I have decided you actually look alot closer to 40.
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 14, 2023 21:01:38 GMT -5
Maybe around 40? To be fair I was going to say 52 but after seeing DanJohnos post I have decided you actually look alot closer to 40. Since only you two commented. I'm 37 years old, and your first instinct was to assume 52. My fiancé's mother thought I was 50 when she first saw my picture. My coworkers at work assumed that I was in my mid 40s when I asked them how old they thought I was. So I'll consider the initial thought to essentially prove my point. I'm evidence of a man who looks older than he is by basically 13 years by your estimation. If Brushy really did step into Oliver's shoes, I think it's doable that a man could look 10-20 years younger than he actually was. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all |
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Post by DanJohno on Nov 14, 2023 21:47:17 GMT -5
Maybe around 40? To be fair I was going to say 52 but after seeing DanJohnos post I have decided you actually look alot closer to 40. Since only you two commented. I'm 37 years old, and your first instinct was to assume 52. My fiancé's mother thought I was 50 when she first saw my picture. My coworkers at work assumed that I was in my mid 40s when I asked them how old they thought I was. So I'll consider the initial thought to essentially prove my point. I'm evidence of a man who looks older than he is by basically 13 years by your estimation. If Brushy really did step into Oliver's shoes, I think it's doable that a man could look 10-20 years younger than he actually was. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all It's only the grey beard that makes you seem older. Your face looks young. |
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 14, 2023 22:13:39 GMT -5
Since only you two commented. I'm 37 years old, and your first instinct was to assume 52. My fiancé's mother thought I was 50 when she first saw my picture. My coworkers at work assumed that I was in my mid 40s when I asked them how old they thought I was. So I'll consider the initial thought to essentially prove my point. I'm evidence of a man who looks older than he is by basically 13 years by your estimation. If Brushy really did step into Oliver's shoes, I think it's doable that a man could look 10-20 years younger than he actually was. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all It's only the grey beard that makes you seem older. Your face looks young. I'm also missing my top teeth and most of my bottom teeth, which would be more visible had I not had a beard and mustache. So that too can give an extra appearance of looking older. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all |
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Post by clydec on Nov 15, 2023 15:55:04 GMT -5
I have seen plenty of people that looked much younger then they actually are. My wife is one of them. She was still getting asked for ID when she was in her 30's.
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 15, 2023 20:47:38 GMT -5
I have seen plenty of people that looked much younger then they actually are. My wife is one of them. She was still getting asked for ID when she was in her 30's. Same. My fiancé is 34 and got ID'd a month or so ago for buying a knife (she's British). My point with the video/arguments from Wild West Extravaganza is that everybody ages different including Billy The Kid. The historical Kid passed himself off younger than he was, as well as older than he was. Though in his 20s he was passable for a teenager. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all |
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Post by gladstone on Nov 16, 2023 19:13:31 GMT -5
After listening to it, I don't think the appearance of age was his key argument in that segment. It appeared to be, from his death until the 1900s Brushy was on numerous census and marriage records. He knew it was Brushy because of the wives. The age thing came up asking, when the draft for those 40 and under was rolled out, if Brushy was 60, why'd he register? youtu.be/M5s5zuDlxfM?si=hqcWN8EVrNaXxDFeThe key argument that this man makes, in short, is that Brushy Bill Roberts looked too young to be Billy The Kid and brings up the censuses to "confirm" that Brushy was in his 70s instead of his 90s as he claimed. He says that there's no way that a man in his 40s could possibly pass for a man in his 20s, in reference to Brushy's story of taking over the identity of his cousin Oliver Pleasant Roberts. Now, this is an experiment. Only Wayne knows my age because of registering to the forum with my birthdate. I'm going to post a picture of myself, and I want you to guess my age. I do this because seldom does anyone get it right and are shocked when I tell them my age. Once there is a consensus, I will follow up on the matter. Or add more photos to get a better estimate of my appearance. Anyways, in my experience in life I have met people who looked either younger than they were or older than they are. Everybody ages different. So the argument I find to be somewhat weak, especially when you look at pictures of Henry Roberts in old age looking (imo) younger than he was. My great uncle was in his 80s and looked in his 60s until his health went sideways and began to look his age. So the idea of someone looking younger is a disqualifier is not a good argument. After all, the real Billy The Kid looked younger than in his 20s. Which brings me to the census argument the man tried to make. The real Billy The Kid also had shifting age(s) whenever he appeared in a census. In one of the last censuses he appeared in, if I'm not mistaken, he gave himself as being either 15 or 18 years old. So clearly he was a man who used his youthful appearance to evade detection. In some censuses he said he was older than he was, too. There has been some debate by even Brushy skeptics as to whether The Kid really was 21, or whether he was really born in New York. This is still a matter of contention by the "Billy died in 1881" crowd, so for all we know The Kid was younger or even older than stated. I'm reminded of the story where The Kid was given clothes from a 10 year old boy and they fit him. Now either The Kid was extremely scrawny or he might've been younger than stated, or some combination of the two. Lastly, there was a comment made by Wild West Extravaganza that Brushy didn't start telling tales and changing his age in the censuses until after his parents died. Henry Roberts died in 1924, as did Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Heath. But, if I'm not mistaken one of the researchers here on the forum found an article on Brushy from the early 1920s mentioning he won a rodeo title and was an Indian fighter. I might be wrong on that early 1920s article, but I look at it as a challenge. If there is an article prior to 1924 mentioning him then that leaves a giant hole in the mans assertion. Anyways, this is RUFUS aka WhisperingBillyBarlow Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all |
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Post by Wayne Land on Nov 17, 2023 0:55:51 GMT -5
Because registration was mandatory and he was living under the alias of Oliver P. Roberts, who would have been required to register. If Brushy had not registered, the authorities might have come to his house to get him. What was he going to do then, suddenly admit he was a fraud?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Nov 17, 2023 22:04:54 GMT -5
Because registration was mandatory and he was living under the alias of Oliver P. Roberts, who would have been required to register. If Brushy had not registered, the authorities might have come to his house to get him. What was he going to do then, suddenly admit he was a fraud? Oliver P Roberts was required to register for the WWI draft. Did Brushy ever claim to be Oliver Roberts? Is there any evidence that Oliver Roberts, son of Henry Oliver Roberts, permanently disappeared from Van Zandt County after he divorced Anna Lee in 1910? |
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Post by Wayne Land on Nov 18, 2023 13:46:56 GMT -5
Gee TTT, sometimes when responding to your posts I start to feel like a broken record.
Yes, Oliver P Roberts was required to register for the WWI draft.
Yes, it is well known that Brushy claimed to be Oliver Roberts.
All the evidence supporting Brushy's claim he was BTK would also, by inference, indicate that the real Oliver left Van Zandt County after the divorce from Anna Lee and you can't prove he didn't.
Do you have any evidence that the person who registered in the WWI draft as Oliver P. Roberts was the "real" Oliver?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Nov 18, 2023 17:13:56 GMT -5
Gee TTT, sometimes when responding to your posts I start to feel like a broken record. Yes, Oliver P Roberts was required to register for the WWI draft. Yes, it is well known that Brushy claimed to be Oliver Roberts. All the evidence supporting Brushy's claim he was BTK would also, by inference, indicate that the real Oliver left Van Zandt County after the divorce from Anna Lee and you can't prove he didn't. Do you have any evidence that the person who registered in the WWI draft as Oliver P. Roberts was the "real" Oliver? Brushy never claimed he was Oliver P Roberts. That is a myth. There is nothing in “Alias Billy the Kid” that even suggests Brushy assumed the identity of Oliver P Roberts. That is an unsubstantiated and far fetched assumption based on his marriages to Mollie Brown, Louticia Ballard, and Melinda Allison. Each appears in official records as the wife of Oliver Roberts. Oliver Roberts was in the household of his father, Henry O Roberts, in the 1900 census of Hopkins County. Both Oliver Roberts and Henry O Roberts were heads of household in the 1910 census of Van Zandt County. Both Oliver Roberts and Henry O Roberts lived in Arkinda, Little River County, Arkansas, before 1920. By "inference", this proves Henry O Roberts was the father of Oliver Pleasant Roberts who lived in Arkinda, Arkansas, when he registered for the WWI draft. There is no evidence of any kind, only speculation and assumptions, that Oliver Roberts, son of Henry O Roberts, died before 1950. Please review these facts: The WWI draft card of Oliver Pleasant Roberts has a birth date of 26 August 1878. The 1900 census record of Oliver P Roberts has a birth date of August 1879. The 1987 letter from Oliver’s niece, Geneva Robert Pittman, stated Oliver P Roberts was Brushy’s name, and that he was born 26 August 1879. |
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