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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 3, 2023 19:44:53 GMT -5
With respect to Gale Cooper, I haven’t read any of her books, but it sounds like she’s passionate about her research and her writings. I question some of what has been posted on the thread here about some things. As far as the town folk and Brushy’s mental issue go, a person back in the day could be labeled mentally unstable if they claimed they saw a UFO, so if someone in town mentions being someone famous that history says is long dead then it’s understandable to me that that person would be considered not all there, but that doesn’t mean that what he said wasn’t true. As far as the family, these are person’s close to Brushy and their word is hard to dispute, but this is information that’s coming from possibly an unreliable source. And the fact that he wasn’t committed makes me wonder about the credibility of it. As far as Morrison being a grocer and auto parts salesman and real estate broker. Brushy had another lawyer Ted Andress and I don’t recall reading that he or Morrison seen a need for Brushy to get a mental evaluation? Brushy apparently didn’t seem to show to them that he had any mental issues at the time they represented him. From what I understand photostatic copies of the correspondence from the family members do exist somewhere. If Cooper got ahold of them, then it was because she requested them from Cline. I guess one will have to reach out to Cline personally to see these copies. As for Brushy's mental state, there have been plenty of people throughout history who were fully capable of living seemingly ordinary lives but who were living a delusion. Anna Anderson, for example, claimed to be the long lost Anastasia until dna from Prince Philip confirmed multiple bodies in a Russian forest were indeed the Romanov's. Anna Anderson in reality was a woman named Franziska Schanzkowska of Poland who suffered a complete and total mental collapse after her husband died during the second World War. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_AndersonShe had many backers, including some of the legitimate family members of the Russian peerage. Which goes to show that even family can be mistaken by an imposter. I think Brushy was delusional but could shut it off whenever pressed and would say "1868" was his birthdate because he needed that social security check. From what I understand he was extremely nervous of writing his name to censuses because he was afraid the jig would be up and it be discovered that he was in fact born in 1879, therefore defrauding the government. The fact that the stories kept changing overtime is also an indication that he could turn off his delusions, because some part of him knew none of it was real. Gale Cooper's hypothesis is that Morrison coached Brushy with different details, etc which is why the tapes have never been released because the tapes would show constant breaks in the stories, leading Brushy with statements, etc. Plus the fact that over time Morrison and Bean and others added in new things, to try and make a better Brushy or more convincing story because there was many things added in following the 1st edition of Alias Billy The Kid. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 3, 2023 20:42:18 GMT -5
I would add further, Andress gave another account of what happened. According to him, Brushy came to see Morrison in Missouri not the other way around.
Now, according to Gale Cooper apparently Morrison also had some stake in J. Frank Dalton originally. And that kind of makes sense because I have heard other conflicting stories where Joe Hines never existed and that it was Dalton who told Morrison that Brushy Bill Roberts was Billy The Kid.
One day I'm going to have to reach out to Cline and Cooper to see if they can back up that Dalton was Morrison's first client or person of interest, and see about the letters from Brushy's family about him not being Billy The Kid. Something simply does not add up with Morrison's version of events.
I think for far too long we have all taken Morrison's word as 100% truthful, and that's why we haven't been able to connect dots on different things. I would also recommend people watch Gale Cooper's video on the affidavits that Morrison had, especially DeWitt Travis's because he made one fatal mistake in describing Brushy's teeth saying he had tusk-like incisors which is something Billy The Kid never had.
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 3, 2023 21:43:46 GMT -5
Yeah I get your point, but still the source for the all of this seems unclear. Gale Cooper claims she got this from an unpublished book. So we have to trust Cooper's word, and she appears to have an agenda to talk down Brushy and Morrison. Im not so sure she is trustworthy, she doesn't seem objective in her work? I get the feeling she really hates Brushy and Morrison on a personal level? If you believe Brushy, DO NOT WATCH COOPER'S VIDEO SEGMENTS 48,49, and 50 ABOUT BRUSHY, MORRISON, & SONNICHSEN. www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMIx6ELe0i4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMIx6ELe0i4Gale Cooper did not admire any of them. Records and city directories confirm that Morrison was a grocer, auto parts salesman, and real estate broker. I sometimes wonder if Morrison's credentials as a "lawyer" was because he literally bought the degree from a catalog, which was common in those days. Back in the 1940s-1950s one could also be a "licensed" doctor or pharmacist simply because you passed a test you could order in a catalog. I only know this fact because Hank Williams's so-called personal physician was a friend of his who was "licensed" through a catalog and therefore had access to prescription drug pads to fill out whatever drugs Williams wanted. Since no record has ever been found of Morrison being an actual lawyer through a genuine law firm it makes me wonder if he only had the credentials through a similar service. Perhaps some documents exist of Morrison obtaining this "license" through catalogs then. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 4, 2023 4:20:04 GMT -5
Got a copy or outline of Cline's unpublished book and photostatic copies of some letters from the book. There's a few interesting things throughout the timeline, including an interesting person of interest "RF ROBERTS" who Morrison claimed was a distant relative of Brushy's and he was apart of the law firm that sent the pardon request to Governor Mabry. Makes me wonder who that man was.
Anyways. The outline includes numerous articles over the years mentioning different events in the Roberts family. The outline (in part) is kind of tragic:
In no particular order, Brushy gets divorced (1910), his parents die (1924), Berry Roberts is murdered (1923), the riding accident (1922), has a strange hiccuping case that lasts a week (1920), his 2nd wife dies (1918), sells the only property he ever owned (1918) and nearly dies himself from the flu (1918). I wonder if the combination of personal tragedy and physical trauma didn't effect him mentally and began the delusions of being in the Wild West.
I think Cline also implied that in the riding accident or another riding accident unrelated Brushy was injured in his scrotum area and basically was rendered impotent or sterile. If that is true, I can imagine that would only further mental and emotional issues because of hormonal changes and being barren. This was 1922 and is mentioned in the Canton Herald (June 2nd, page 8).
It's in 1918 he starts telling residents in Mena, Arkansas that he was Frank James. Mary June Roberts said after this Brushy went with her by train to Oklahoma. He was previously living with Thomas Roberts, and ended up living with his sister Cordelia because apparently him claiming to be Frank James disturbed and annoyed Thomas.
In 1919, apparently he began claiming to be Billy The Kid because a letter from the grandson of Brushy's stepdaughter recalls that his uncle Buck and Brushy didn't get along, but his other uncle Bill Brown did and him & Brushy picked cotton together the year after Molly died and he told Bill that he was Billy The Kid. The grandson recalled an incident where his uncle Buck told him that Brushy claimed to be a cowboy from Texas, but that he couldn't even ride Molly's pony as it thrown him off.
Jewel Brown, his stepdaughter, had read the book Alias Billy The Kid and said she was disappointed he did that. She remarked that the picture included in the book of him sitting on a horse looked exactly the way he looked when Molly and her first met him at a rodeo in Canton.
1923 or so Roberts stays in the home of a sister, claiming that he rode a horse in Madison Square Garden and supposedly had a newspaper clipping of this event. He supposedly injured his back either in this event or afterwards after getting thrown from a horse.
1924-1925, he lived in the residence of his niece Mary June Roberts after he caused his brother (Thomas) and sister in law so much trouble. Sometime in around 1925-1927 Brushy worked as an oil worker in Los Angeles California but returned to Canton according to the Canton Herald 1927 (May 6th, page 6) and he's noted as "Brushy Bell Roberts."
It must be noted that for the most part the census records remained unchanged. In 1910 he lists his parents as from Kentucky, but all the way into the 1930s he lists father and mother from Texas and Arkansas, and in 1930 says he was born around 1878. The oddity is the question, "Age at First Marriage," and he lists himself as 51 and he was 52 in 1930, meaning that he didn't include Anna Lee or Molly Brown in his history. He was married to Louticia at the time.
1940 the stories start becoming more grand. He claims a grandfather named Ben Roberts who fought alongside Sam Houston, a father named Owl Roberts who fought under General Ross. Claims he was born in Buffalo Gap on January 1st 1869. Among other claims in the article he claims he rode for both Buffalo and Pawnee Bill. This is recorded in the Stamford American (July 5th, page 4).
In a matter of a decade he made himself nearly 20 years older. His wife was listed as 65, and he was listed as 70 in 1940 when the 1930 census showed he was 52 and his wife was 57. In the Hico News Review (July 25th, 1941 page 1) he claims his father was Al "Two Gun Henry" Roberts. 1944 Louticia dies and he signs his name Ollie Roberts, and she's listed as 69 and the following year marries Lizzie Allison.
1949 he talks at length in the Hico News Review (page 8, September 9th) about J. Frank Dalton, and January 20th 1950 (page 1) talks about his trip to New York backing Dalton as Jesse James.
After the failed pardon with Mabry, Brushy wrote a letter to Ola Everhard saying that he had been in bed for two weeks admittedly from a nervous breakdown. The letter was dated December 13th, 1950 (Billy The Kid & Me Were the Same, page 33) and Brushy died December 28th fifteen days later.
According to Morrison, whatever pictures and negatives and books Brushy had he must've destroyed the moment he got home after the failed pardon with Mabry because many things Morrison claimed were there when he first met Brushy were no longer there.
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by DanJohno on Dec 4, 2023 5:44:52 GMT -5
I admire anyone for studying this Brushy scene for a long time because in 5 years all I've learned is nothing. There's a hierarchy that exists and it's more about establishing yourself in the hierarchy than actually learning anything new or enjoying talking about history. I don't even care if I get banned because at least I wouldn't have to deal with such dishonesty anymore. There are maybe 6 to 8 members of this board that I love and respect but this whole discussion is not going anywhere. Complete and utter dishonesty 100 years from now people will still be arguing over their place in a hierarchy. You all deserve better than this.
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 5, 2023 1:41:42 GMT -5
Read Cline's unpublished book and here's some interesting facts about Brushy not really put out before or seldom heard:
1- Savier County, Arkansas, Real Estate Record Books. Warranty Deed to Purchase, Deed book 57, pg. 231. Sale of 80 acre farm to O.F. and Mollie Roberts February 25, 1918.
When Mollie died and he too was suffering from the same flu that killed her, Brushy wrote to his brother Thomas to come and get him from Mena Arkansas where he was living so he could come live with him. When Thomas reached the town he asked the whereabouts of his brother, and the townspeople began laughing or asking him whether Brushy was really Frank James. Apparently for a year he told anyone who would listen that he was Frank James, to which Thomas angerly denied such a thing. From that point on Thomas never forgave his brother for the embarrassment, though he would take him in off and on over the years. Later on he kicked Brushy out of his house and sent him to live at his sister Cordelia's because the stories kept going on. The "F" in O.F. Roberts is proof that he was referring to himself as Frank James.
2- From 1904 to 1914 in Van Zandt County with the exception of 1904 to 1906 which was spent in Dibble, Oklahoma. Prior to this he lived in Rains and Cherokee Counties.
His claim of taking over the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts somewhere between 1910-1912 could not have happened because he is accounted for by family members and census records and recollections of family friends or employers, as well as his in-laws.
3- Interviews with Hico citizens. Brushy dearly hated “Sarge” Haynes and Jay Guyton who trapped him in many a story. He avoided many men like the plague and was always looking over his shoulder to see if they were about.
According to the citizens of Hico in their recollections of Brushy Bill Roberts, the town was filled with plenty of old-timers who were cowboys, miners, veterans, etc and had lived through different events and knew different people that Brushy claimed to have known, but whenever he'd start off telling stories the residents would catch him in lies or mistakes, etc and anytime he'd see those that exposed his stories as false he'd stop talking altogether and run across the street, etc to avoid such persons.
4- His last wife Lizzie Allison was aware of her husband's wild stories and told her children not to bring her grandchildren around because she didn't want them to pick up the habit of lying.
According to family recollections Brushy apparently didn’t like children either. He expected them to wait on him hand and foot. Cline suspected perhaps his dislike of children was because children made fun of him for his tall tales. After his stepdaughter married, the Roberts family never saw her again as Brushy apparently never kept in contact with her again. This somewhat confirms the notion he didn't care for children, as well as the assertions from Lizzie Allison that Brushy Claimed that all of his family was dead when in reality they were all living close by. He wanted to create a life nobody could trace. One day she found his mail from his family and confronted him with it, and he claimed he had no idea he had relatives living and only recently was writing them when he'd been writing letters to his family his whole life.
5- The family and Lizzie Allison were completely unaware that he was doing interviews with Morrison and only became aware of it all when they read the newspapers about him meeting Mabry.
The family told Cline that had they even had the slightest notion it was going on they would have prevented it from happening, because they knew their brother and uncles mental state. Cline hypothesizes it was Lizzie that destroyed the notebooks, etc and not Brushy after he died when Morrison went to retrieve them. Despite her correspondence with Morrison after the fact, her grandchildren in correspondence with Cline were adamant their grandmother knew that he was not all there mentally.
6- Brushy apparently was married or living with a woman (briefly) by the name of Rhetta Thompson as the family told Cline though they never met her. This was apparently in Dibble, Oklahoma. He was also apparently married to a woman named Maud Bowers on February 6th, 1899 when he was 19 and she was 21 and it lists him as being of Mount Ida, Arkansas. Why these women were never mentioned in his history is anyone's guess.
I'm reminded of the census record with Louticia where it asks, "Age at First Marriage?" and he says 51 (he was 52 in the census) which implies he never told her about Mollie or Anna.
7- Ola Everhard recounts a conversation that she had with Brushy about the importance of noting everything correctly: "I have tried my best to get Bill (Brushy) to see and understand how important it is to get things correct about Billy the Kid and Jesse James but he just laughs and sayd, “Oh well, Ola, people don’t pay any mind and will soon forget what they read.” He is more concerned with getting publicity. So you and I will keep what we discuss so he won’t change it."
Even Morrison noted several times in frustration in his notes and letters how infuriating it was keeping up with all of Brushy's stories because it was a web of dead ends and conflicting information, saying that he honestly did not know if the old man was lying to him or not. Furthermore, Brushy constantly was changing what he wrote in his notebooks that he referred to continuously.
8- The name Billy Barlow has escaped skeptics and believers alike, but if one looks at Brushy’s whereabouts in his later years they see that when Brushy went to see J. Frank Dalton, Robert E. Lee, and other imposters in their yearly gathering party in New Mexico he had to pass through the town of Capitan in Lincoln County. He made this journey many times, as Brushys sister lived in Carlsbad too. A man by the name of Bundy Avant lived in Capitan and he had a white pony named "Billy Barlow," and Brushy apparently met Avant and heard his story because Avant was in the June 1878 issue of TRUE WEST telling his life story.
It seems to be a pattern with Brushy that he would include fictitious names or names of animals into his stories, so that nobody could ever quite trace anything he said.
9- Ola Everhard lived in Lovington, New Mexico. Brushy's sister lived in Carlsbad less than an hour away. Dalton himself lived in New Mexico within the same hours drive from Brushy's sister. The two would often drive through Lincoln and Roswell. Cline confirms when the two met Dalton was calling himself Billy The Kid, but since both men were having the same identity, Dalton became Jesse James instead.
The yearly gathering party of imposters apparently took place at Dalton's home. If one looks up the Howk family, sure enough one will find Orvus Lee Howk living in Sandoval New Mexico in the 1920 census. So undoubtedly Dalton was a Howk or related to the Howk family.
10- Where Cordelia lived in Dibble, Oklahoma there was a nearby creek by her home called "Brushy Creek", and this must've been the genesis of his alias "Brushy Bill" because prior to his 1916 "Riding Roberts" article he was living with Cordelia and sometimes living in Canton with Thomas or his parents.
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 5, 2023 2:30:57 GMT -5
Update on point #6 I listed. A quick check on the Roberts family genealogy shows a familial link to Rhetta Thompson as follows: Isaac Bolinger had a brother named Samuel who married Eva Dunn (Caroline Dunn's mother) Isaac had a son named Armistad Bollinger and he in turn had a son named Henry Carter Bolinger and he married Nancy Adeline Thompson. She had a brother named William Henry Thompson and he married Frances La Rhetta Thompson 👍 www.findagrave.com/memorial/48024947/frances-larhetta-mckayShe lived in Hamilton County Texas most of her life. Brushy, then, must have been residing at her home as a farm laborer. Nothing romantic, unless Brushy had his sights on her and that did not turn out well. They were basically in-laws via Caroline Dunn. Furthermore, Cline was wrong on Maud Bowers because a quick search shows she was married to an Andy OLIVER Roberts, no relationship with Brushy's Robert family. He's listed as Oliver in their marriage record rather than Andy/Andrew. www.findagrave.com/memorial/31775006/anna-maud-robertsJesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Dec 5, 2023 11:36:05 GMT -5
Read Cline's unpublished book and here's some interesting facts about Brushy not really put out before or seldom heard: 1- Savier County, Arkansas, Real Estate Record Books. Warranty Deed to Purchase, Deed book 57, pg. 231. Sale of 80 acre farm to O.F. and Mollie Roberts February 25, 1918. When Mollie died and he too was suffering from the same flu that killed her, Brushy wrote to his brother Thomas to come and get him from Mena Arkansas where he was living so he could come live with him. When Thomas reached the town he asked the whereabouts of his brother, and the townspeople began laughing or asking him whether Brushy was really Frank James. Apparently for a year he told anyone who would listen that he was Frank James, to which Thomas angerly denied such a thing. From that point on Thomas never forgave his brother for the embarrassment, though he would take him in off and on over the years. Later on he kicked Brushy out of his house and sent him to live at his sister Cordelia's because the stories kept going on. The "F" in O.F. Roberts is proof that he was referring to himself as Frank James. 2- From 1904 to 1914 in Van Zandt County with the exception of 1904 to 1906 which was spent in Dibble, Oklahoma. Prior to this he lived in Rains and Cherokee Counties. His claim of taking over the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts somewhere between 1910-1912 could not have happened because he is accounted for by family members and census records and recollections of family friends or employers, as well as his in-laws. 3- Interviews with Hico citizens. Brushy dearly hated “Sarge” Haynes and Jay Guyton who trapped him in many a story. He avoided many men like the plague and was always looking over his shoulder to see if they were about. According to the citizens of Hico in their recollections of Brushy Bill Roberts, the town was filled with plenty of old-timers who were cowboys, miners, veterans, etc and had lived through different events and knew different people that Brushy claimed to have known, but whenever he'd start off telling stories the residents would catch him in lies or mistakes, etc and anytime he'd see those that exposed his stories as false he'd stop talking altogether and run across the street, etc to avoid such persons. 4- His last wife Lizzie Allison was aware of her husband's wild stories and told her children not to bring her grandchildren around because she didn't want them to pick up the habit of lying. According to family recollections Brushy apparently didn’t like children either. He expected them to wait on him hand and foot. Cline suspected perhaps his dislike of children was because children made fun of him for his tall tales. After his stepdaughter married, the Roberts family never saw her again as Brushy apparently never kept in contact with her again. This somewhat confirms the notion he didn't care for children, as well as the assertions from Lizzie Allison that Brushy Claimed that all of his family was dead when in reality they were all living close by. He wanted to create a life nobody could trace. One day she found his mail from his family and confronted him with it, and he claimed he had no idea he had relatives living and only recently was writing them when he'd been writing letters to his family his whole life. 5- The family and Lizzie Allison were completely unaware that he was doing interviews with Morrison and only became aware of it all when they read the newspapers about him meeting Mabry. The family told Cline that had they even had the slightest notion it was going on they would have prevented it from happening, because they knew their brother and uncles mental state. Cline hypothesizes it was Lizzie that destroyed the notebooks, etc and not Brushy after he died when Morrison went to retrieve them. Despite her correspondence with Morrison after the fact, her grandchildren in correspondence with Cline were adamant their grandmother knew that he was not all there mentally. 6- Brushy apparently was married or living with a woman (briefly) by the name of Rhetta Thompson as the family told Cline though they never met her. This was apparently in Dibble, Oklahoma. He was also apparently married to a woman named Maud Bowers on February 6th, 1899 when he was 19 and she was 21 and it lists him as being of Mount Ida, Arkansas. Why these women were never mentioned in his history is anyone's guess. I'm reminded of the census record with Louticia where it asks, "Age at First Marriage?" and he says 51 (he was 52 in the census) which implies he never told her about Mollie or Anna. 7- Ola Everhard recounts a conversation that she had with Brushy about the importance of noting everything correctly: "I have tried my best to get Bill (Brushy) to see and understand how important it is to get things correct about Billy the Kid and Jesse James but he just laughs and sayd, “Oh well, Ola, people don’t pay any mind and will soon forget what they read.” He is more concerned with getting publicity. So you and I will keep what we discuss so he won’t change it." Even Morrison noted several times in frustration in his notes and letters how infuriating it was keeping up with all of Brushy's stories because it was a web of dead ends and conflicting information, saying that he honestly did not know if the old man was lying to him or not. Furthermore, Brushy constantly was changing what he wrote in his notebooks that he referred to continuously. 8- The name Billy Barlow has escaped skeptics and believers alike, but if one looks at Brushy’s whereabouts in his later years they see that when Brushy went to see J. Frank Dalton, Robert E. Lee, and other imposters in their yearly gathering party in New Mexico he had to pass through the town of Capitan in Lincoln County. He made this journey many times, as Brushys sister lived in Carlsbad too. A man by the name of Bundy Avant lived in Capitan and he had a white pony named "Billy Barlow," and Brushy apparently met Avant and heard his story because Avant was in the June 1878 issue of TRUE WEST telling his life story. It seems to be a pattern with Brushy that he would include fictitious names or names of animals into his stories, so that nobody could ever quite trace anything he said. 9- Ola Everhard lived in Lovington, New Mexico. Brushy's sister lived in Carlsbad less than an hour away. Dalton himself lived in New Mexico within the same hours drive from Brushy's sister. The two would often drive through Lincoln and Roswell. Cline confirms when the two met Dalton was calling himself Billy The Kid, but since both men were having the same identity, Dalton became Jesse James instead. The yearly gathering party of imposters apparently took place at Dalton's home. If one looks up the Howk family, sure enough one will find Orvus Lee Howk living in Sandoval New Mexico in the 1920 census. So undoubtedly Dalton was a Howk or related to the Howk family. 10- Where Cordelia lived in Dibble, Oklahoma there was a nearby creek by her home called "Brushy Creek", and this must've been the genesis of his alias "Brushy Bill" because prior to his 1916 "Riding Roberts" article he was living with Cordelia and sometimes living in Canton with Thomas or his parents. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all "His claim of taking over the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts somewhere between 1910-1912 could not have happened because he is accounted for by family members and census records and recollections of family friends or employers, as well as his in-laws." I do not believe that Brushy ever claimed that he assumed the identity of Oliver P Roberts. That claim is the invention of more recent authors to maintain the pretense that Brushy might be Billy the Kid.
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Post by MissyS on Dec 5, 2023 12:09:02 GMT -5
billybarlowofficial, Your advising people to read Donald Cline’s unpublished book, but how can anyone read it if it’s unpublished?
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 5, 2023 13:04:00 GMT -5
billybarlowofficial, Your advising people to read Donald Cline’s unpublished book, but how can anyone read it if it’s unpublished? I don't want to give up the source from where I got the text but I was given it from a well known name in the Billy The Kid community, and if anyone wants to read it I can either send it to people via Facebook or slowly post the entire book here on the forum. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by chivato88 on Dec 5, 2023 13:47:25 GMT -5
I would add further, Andress gave another account of what happened. According to him, Brushy came to see Morrison in Missouri not the other way around. Now, according to Gale Cooper apparently Morrison also had some stake in J. Frank Dalton originally. And that kind of makes sense because I have heard other conflicting stories where Joe Hines never existed and that it was Dalton who told Morrison that Brushy Bill Roberts was Billy The Kid. One day I'm going to have to reach out to Cline and Cooper to see if they can back up that Dalton was Morrison's first client or person of interest, and see about the letters from Brushy's family about him not being Billy The Kid. Something simply does not add up with Morrison's version of events. I think for far too long we have all taken Morrison's word as 100% truthful, and that's why we haven't been able to connect dots on different things. I would also recommend people watch Gale Cooper's video on the affidavits that Morrison had, especially DeWitt Travis's because he made one fatal mistake in describing Brushy's teeth saying he had tusk-like incisors which is something Billy The Kid never had. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all I think Philip J Rasch said in one of is books that Joe Hines was a guy named Campbell, probably Billy Campbell the one that shot Huston Chapman.
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Post by chivato88 on Dec 5, 2023 14:37:42 GMT -5
He said that Billy Campbell was a man named Hines, sorry my bad. Same thing but not quite
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 5, 2023 15:24:56 GMT -5
Read Cline's unpublished book and here's some interesting facts about Brushy not really put out before or seldom heard: 1- Savier County, Arkansas, Real Estate Record Books. Warranty Deed to Purchase, Deed book 57, pg. 231. Sale of 80 acre farm to O.F. and Mollie Roberts February 25, 1918. When Mollie died and he too was suffering from the same flu that killed her, Brushy wrote to his brother Thomas to come and get him from Mena Arkansas where he was living so he could come live with him. When Thomas reached the town he asked the whereabouts of his brother, and the townspeople began laughing or asking him whether Brushy was really Frank James. Apparently for a year he told anyone who would listen that he was Frank James, to which Thomas angerly denied such a thing. From that point on Thomas never forgave his brother for the embarrassment, though he would take him in off and on over the years. Later on he kicked Brushy out of his house and sent him to live at his sister Cordelia's because the stories kept going on. The "F" in O.F. Roberts is proof that he was referring to himself as Frank James. 2- From 1904 to 1914 in Van Zandt County with the exception of 1904 to 1906 which was spent in Dibble, Oklahoma. Prior to this he lived in Rains and Cherokee Counties. His claim of taking over the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts somewhere between 1910-1912 could not have happened because he is accounted for by family members and census records and recollections of family friends or employers, as well as his in-laws. 3- Interviews with Hico citizens. Brushy dearly hated “Sarge” Haynes and Jay Guyton who trapped him in many a story. He avoided many men like the plague and was always looking over his shoulder to see if they were about. According to the citizens of Hico in their recollections of Brushy Bill Roberts, the town was filled with plenty of old-timers who were cowboys, miners, veterans, etc and had lived through different events and knew different people that Brushy claimed to have known, but whenever he'd start off telling stories the residents would catch him in lies or mistakes, etc and anytime he'd see those that exposed his stories as false he'd stop talking altogether and run across the street, etc to avoid such persons. 4- His last wife Lizzie Allison was aware of her husband's wild stories and told her children not to bring her grandchildren around because she didn't want them to pick up the habit of lying. According to family recollections Brushy apparently didn’t like children either. He expected them to wait on him hand and foot. Cline suspected perhaps his dislike of children was because children made fun of him for his tall tales. After his stepdaughter married, the Roberts family never saw her again as Brushy apparently never kept in contact with her again. This somewhat confirms the notion he didn't care for children, as well as the assertions from Lizzie Allison that Brushy Claimed that all of his family was dead when in reality they were all living close by. He wanted to create a life nobody could trace. One day she found his mail from his family and confronted him with it, and he claimed he had no idea he had relatives living and only recently was writing them when he'd been writing letters to his family his whole life. 5- The family and Lizzie Allison were completely unaware that he was doing interviews with Morrison and only became aware of it all when they read the newspapers about him meeting Mabry. The family told Cline that had they even had the slightest notion it was going on they would have prevented it from happening, because they knew their brother and uncles mental state. Cline hypothesizes it was Lizzie that destroyed the notebooks, etc and not Brushy after he died when Morrison went to retrieve them. Despite her correspondence with Morrison after the fact, her grandchildren in correspondence with Cline were adamant their grandmother knew that he was not all there mentally. 6- Brushy apparently was married or living with a woman (briefly) by the name of Rhetta Thompson as the family told Cline though they never met her. This was apparently in Dibble, Oklahoma. He was also apparently married to a woman named Maud Bowers on February 6th, 1899 when he was 19 and she was 21 and it lists him as being of Mount Ida, Arkansas. Why these women were never mentioned in his history is anyone's guess. I'm reminded of the census record with Louticia where it asks, "Age at First Marriage?" and he says 51 (he was 52 in the census) which implies he never told her about Mollie or Anna. 7- Ola Everhard recounts a conversation that she had with Brushy about the importance of noting everything correctly: "I have tried my best to get Bill (Brushy) to see and understand how important it is to get things correct about Billy the Kid and Jesse James but he just laughs and sayd, “Oh well, Ola, people don’t pay any mind and will soon forget what they read.” He is more concerned with getting publicity. So you and I will keep what we discuss so he won’t change it." Even Morrison noted several times in frustration in his notes and letters how infuriating it was keeping up with all of Brushy's stories because it was a web of dead ends and conflicting information, saying that he honestly did not know if the old man was lying to him or not. Furthermore, Brushy constantly was changing what he wrote in his notebooks that he referred to continuously. 8- The name Billy Barlow has escaped skeptics and believers alike, but if one looks at Brushy’s whereabouts in his later years they see that when Brushy went to see J. Frank Dalton, Robert E. Lee, and other imposters in their yearly gathering party in New Mexico he had to pass through the town of Capitan in Lincoln County. He made this journey many times, as Brushys sister lived in Carlsbad too. A man by the name of Bundy Avant lived in Capitan and he had a white pony named "Billy Barlow," and Brushy apparently met Avant and heard his story because Avant was in the June 1878 issue of TRUE WEST telling his life story. It seems to be a pattern with Brushy that he would include fictitious names or names of animals into his stories, so that nobody could ever quite trace anything he said. 9- Ola Everhard lived in Lovington, New Mexico. Brushy's sister lived in Carlsbad less than an hour away. Dalton himself lived in New Mexico within the same hours drive from Brushy's sister. The two would often drive through Lincoln and Roswell. Cline confirms when the two met Dalton was calling himself Billy The Kid, but since both men were having the same identity, Dalton became Jesse James instead. The yearly gathering party of imposters apparently took place at Dalton's home. If one looks up the Howk family, sure enough one will find Orvus Lee Howk living in Sandoval New Mexico in the 1920 census. So undoubtedly Dalton was a Howk or related to the Howk family. 10- Where Cordelia lived in Dibble, Oklahoma there was a nearby creek by her home called "Brushy Creek", and this must've been the genesis of his alias "Brushy Bill" because prior to his 1916 "Riding Roberts" article he was living with Cordelia and sometimes living in Canton with Thomas or his parents. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all "His claim of taking over the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts somewhere between 1910-1912 could not have happened because he is accounted for by family members and census records and recollections of family friends or employers, as well as his in-laws." I do not believe that Brushy ever claimed that he assumed the identity of Oliver P Roberts. That claim is the invention of more recent authors to maintain the pretense that Brushy might be Billy the Kid. It may very well be, but I know Cline essentially repeats the narrative that Brushy took over the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts, although his version is slightly different than one we've heard so often. In his version of the story Brushy and Oliver apparently looked nothing alike, and yet the mother and the father of Oliver took him in as their son anyway. Which sounds all the more impossible if indeed that was the original story relayed to Morrison and others. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by texas truth teller on Dec 5, 2023 23:03:52 GMT -5
"His claim of taking over the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts somewhere between 1910-1912 could not have happened because he is accounted for by family members and census records and recollections of family friends or employers, as well as his in-laws." I do not believe that Brushy ever claimed that he assumed the identity of Oliver P Roberts. That claim is the invention of more recent authors to maintain the pretense that Brushy might be Billy the Kid. It may very well be, but I know Cline essentially repeats the narrative that Brushy took over the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts, although his version is slightly different than one we've heard so often. In his version of the story Brushy and Oliver apparently looked nothing alike, and yet the mother and the father of Oliver took him in as their son anyway. Which sounds all the more impossible if indeed that was the original story relayed to Morrison and others. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all As told by Morrison: Alias, p.61 “Using his leverage as an officer, he took his cousin’s belongings, intending to return them to the boy’s family. He probably hung on to them, however, for whenever he located the relatives at Sulphur Springs, Texas, they took him for the runaway boy and he let them think he was. Dudley Heath, who was married to Billy’s cousin Martha was dubious. ‘That’s not your brother,’ he told her. But Ollie’s mother took Brushy Bill to her bosom as a long-lost son, and members of the family, down through the years, calls him Ollie and supposed he was the son of the woman who claimed him.” Elizabeth obviously would have claimed Brushy as her son, since he was Oliver P Roberts. Martha Heath was a half-sister of Oliver P Roberts as Dudley said. Sulphur Springs is the county seat of Hopkins County. H O and Elizabeth Roberts lived in Hopkins County in 1900, and Oliver Roberts was a member of their household. H O and Elizabeth buried 2 children in Hopkins County: Lonnie in 1887 and Nora in 1893.
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 5, 2023 23:38:19 GMT -5
It may very well be, but I know Cline essentially repeats the narrative that Brushy took over the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts, although his version is slightly different than one we've heard so often. In his version of the story Brushy and Oliver apparently looked nothing alike, and yet the mother and the father of Oliver took him in as their son anyway. Which sounds all the more impossible if indeed that was the original story relayed to Morrison and others. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all As told by Morrison: Alias, p.61 “Using his leverage as an officer, he took his cousin’s belongings, intending to return them to the boy’s family. He probably hung on to them, however, for whenever he located the relatives at Sulphur Springs, Texas, they took him for the runaway boy and he let them think he was. Dudley Heath, who was married to Billy’s cousin Martha was dubious. ‘That’s not your brother,’ he told her. But Ollie’s mother took Brushy Bill to her bosom as a long-lost son, and members of the family, down through the years, calls him Ollie and supposed he was the son of the woman who claimed him.” Elizabeth obviously would have claimed Brushy as her son, since he was Oliver P Roberts. Martha Heath was a half-sister of Oliver P Roberts as Dudley said. Sulphur Springs is the county seat of Hopkins County. H O and Elizabeth Roberts lived in Hopkins County in 1900, and Oliver Roberts was a member of their household. H O and Elizabeth buried 2 children in Hopkins County: Lonnie in 1887 and Nora in 1893. I always found it interesting Brushy turned his half sister Martha into a cousin, when he never tried to make an account for his other half sister Samantha. Both were older than him by some significant margin, but Samantha lived 9 years longer than Martha. Cordelia was also older than Brushy and lived into 1968, I'm genuinely surprised it wasn't until Cline really was her children reached out to. I do know that according to family Brushy was kind of obsessed with Monroe Dudley Heath because he was legitimately either a Texas Ranger or border patrol agent, I forget which, so much so he weaved into his own stories some details he heard from Dudley. Hence why he probably included Martha into his account as his cousin, because Dudley was of some use to his overall stories. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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