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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 26, 2009 18:46:49 GMT -5
Brushy's photo compared to Billy's Pupil to Pupil - the same Pupil to tip of nose - the same width of mouth - the same alignment of mouth slightly skewed to the right - the same size of ears - the same earlobes - very similar width of face - very similar width of nose - the same length of nose - the same width of eye openings - the same shape of eyebrows - both the same thickness of lips - the same distance from lower lip to chin - the same in photos of Brushy prior to teeth removal right shoulder slightly lower than left - the same shoulder width - the same arm length - the same girth - the same torso - the same hand size - the same foot size - the same height - the same weight - very similar eye color - the same according to eyewitnesses, difficult to determine in b&w photos speckled eye color - the same according to eyewitnesses apparent head size - the same erect posture - the same according to eyewitnesses voice pitch - the same according to earwitnesses laughter - the same according to earwitnesses walk - the same according to eyewitnesses No other photos ever brought forward as possible BTK photos have ever matched Billy's description as well as Brushy's do. No other facial comparisons match as well. Yet some say Brushy just didn't look like Billy. Some insist John Miller, a man who's facial measurements and overall stature don't even come close to matching the tintype, looked much more like Billy than Brushy did. What do you think? Can you describe why? Attachments:
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Post by devinb on Jun 24, 2011 8:04:23 GMT -5
He's the same guy Attachments:
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Post by devinb on Jun 24, 2011 8:07:29 GMT -5
If you carefully look at the "snake-eyes" in both the iconic tintype, and from Brushy's later pose--both the left eyebrows and the eyes match, even with over 60 yrs between pictures. Attachments:
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 9, 2011 0:15:05 GMT -5
brushy was discredited for having sort of hollow grey pupils. often a set of eyes thought to be deluged in light blue may appear as bright blue in youth, and become very light-grey looking in older age. also very light blues appear different thru the variations in color response in the viewer. brushy's full grey pupils + bonney's full light blue pupils = real possibilities for a match.
that's just the eyes. how many people you know have those round earcups, at that angle, with the left one sticking out like it does?
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 9, 2011 0:17:30 GMT -5
i understand that the image on the left, thought to be btk about 1878, was only found in 2003. compare to the image on the right of roberts about 1949/50. wow. Attachments:
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 9, 2011 0:20:39 GMT -5
the difference in ear height i believe is explained by, in addition to age changes, what i think is about a 3-5 degree difference in head positioning, the earlier photo he's looking down on the camera more. (you should view the WHOLE photo to see this)
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Post by Wayne Land on Nov 9, 2011 1:15:03 GMT -5
Welcome to the message board, searcher64. I really enjoyed your photo comparisons and will look forward to more of your opinions and ideas on Billy/Brushy. Thanks.
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 10, 2011 0:17:31 GMT -5
thanks for the kind welcome and your earnest efforts to get to the truth.
as much as by the photos, my 'bell' is rung by the questionable nature of the words, actions and deeds of garrett after that night, and by the fact that i can take the list of detractions and summarily explain half of them right away, something i can't easily do with the other side of the argument.
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 10, 2011 0:20:08 GMT -5
ok, now its my turn... WHO WILL TELL ME THESE AREN'T THE SAME GUY? (btw, the photo discovered 2003 is said to have a 98% match to the iconographic tintype. i wonder what the computer says about matching these 2 pics?) Attachments:
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 10, 2011 1:17:46 GMT -5
i saw this pic purported to be btk, on the web. i wonder where it came from. you hardly ever see this one. i haven't done any comparisons but it sure looks to me like it could very well be our guy....... Attachments:
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Post by Wayne Land on Nov 10, 2011 14:30:50 GMT -5
I agree with the experts on the picture from 2003 from Globe Arizona. Not only does the alleged Billy match up really well, the other fella in the picture matches really well with Joe McCarty. I haven't tried to match that picture with Brushy, but I can tell you for certain that Brushy's photo matches the iconic tintype slightly better than the Globe photo and that speaks volumes.
As for the second picture posted above, I also tried matching that one and I don't think that's Billy. The face is longer and narrower. I'm going to take another look at these pics though and maybe I'll change my mind. Thanks for posting those.
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 10, 2011 16:32:39 GMT -5
thanks, i like your assessment... is it safe to say we need a very high matching percentage, just by the very nature of bonney's features being 'approximable' by many middle americans of the period?
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 10, 2011 16:39:51 GMT -5
i would call the globe/brushy comparison a morph, except nothing morphs much. eyebrows, pupils, nose, mouth, jawline, left ear, (shoulder height doesn't quite match 'cause he's trying not to slump and is standing more erectly than normal in the globe photo)
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 20, 2011 21:51:06 GMT -5
... As for the second picture posted above, I also tried matching that one and I don't think that's Billy... /quote] maybe not, what do you suppose your hand expert would say about it? he seems to have that right shoulder slouch, narrow shoulder, wide wrists, foreshortened hand accentuating already long fingers... and maybe a sort of crabhanded thumbjoint... (  on this last point) |
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Post by searcher64 on Nov 20, 2011 22:26:09 GMT -5
so many of the percieved points of disagreement on the description of btk can be easily answered, its hard to know where to begin. at various camera angles and light levels he could appear to have a pointy or a flat chin.
if garrett said btk had 'mexi-cand' himself, they were aware of his shifting appearance. he seemed to have numerous changes of clothing. he could by turns appear quite 'irish looking' or dark...
in many of the photos, these divergences mostly reconcile to me, especially in context with brusy's pics...
it can even be termed, 'dark irish'... ever known a person who was part native and part irish or scottish? eye color and 'expression' of eye can change in this mixed-blooded environment dramatically. roberts was supposedly 1/4 cherokee, mostly irish and i would guess with the surname 'roberts' at least some scotch...
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on this last point)