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Post by Wayne Land on Feb 22, 2021 14:16:27 GMT -5
Yes, Brushy did go to Lincoln. He was known as William H. Bonney at the time. The explanation you provide is a stretch. Let's assume it's true he went there as Oliver P. Roberts during a visit with his niece. How does that result in him knowing about the Sedillos girl? I just think it is a stretch.
And as far as the affidavit, you do know it is a crime to sign your name to one that contains lies, right? Morrison didn't include the episode in his book because Josephine was not his focus at the time. He was focused on getting an affidavit from Gallegos. After all, she had not personally known Billy The Kid. He was pursuing affidavits from people who personally knew him and could identify him. Her anecdotal information would not have been valuable enough to stand up in court. I am a little surprised he didn't include her story in the book, but I can understand it.
Morrison and Brushy did not visit Gallegos in his home. That does not mean there was no attempt to do so at a time when he was not home. Again, Josephine Sanchez signed a sworn affidavit that they did come there looking for Gallegos.
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Post by leeb on Feb 22, 2021 14:31:27 GMT -5
It's a crime to state lies?... your correct that's all that came from old brushy.
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Post by Wayne Land on Feb 22, 2021 14:51:15 GMT -5
This is from the website "legal beagal".
"Think of an affidavit as written testimony. In court, you raise your right hand and swear that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. In an affidavit, you swear under penalty of perjury that the facts you set out in the document are true to the best of your knowledge. Lying in an affidavit is the same as lying in court testimony, and it constitutes a crime called perjury."
Likewise I'm sure it is also a crime to create a false or fake affidavit.
As for Brushy lying, I've stipulated many times that I believe he told some lies or "exaggerations". He also got a lot of things correct that the real Oliver Pleasant Roberts would not have known. Like remembering he had dated Angelita Sedillos. And again may I suggest that when you react to someone's post you ought to explain your reasoning and not just make a sarcastic remark. That is not what this board is here for.
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Post by Elwood on Feb 22, 2021 15:05:19 GMT -5
Oliver P. Roberts had a niece that lived in Carlsbad, NM. Her husband retired from the mines in 1949 and they lived there until 1972. I have read that Brushy came to visit them a few times and went to Lincoln. Could this have been where Brushy learned about the little town of Phoenix? (page 21, Morrison's book) I know that Mollie had family in Hagerman but don't know if Brushy ever went to visit them. As for Josephine Sanchez' affidavit, Morrison was trying to find people to state that Brushy was Billy the Kid. Brushy knew this, if he had talked to Josephine, why wouldn't he have told Morrison and why didn't Morrison meet her and get her to sign a affidavit in 1950. I also don't feel that Brushy was ever at the Gallegos home. nmjames It's interesting to note that in Carlsbad, New Mexico at that same time period, was some of the family of Ma'am Jones.
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Post by kerry on Feb 25, 2021 2:11:42 GMT -5
When it comes to alternate reality - Pat Garrett was a confidence man...his comfort zone was a saloon not a gun fight
Like Poe -Pat was a buffalo hunter. Like Poe -Pat was a Mason a Sherriff a US Marshall - but never a gun fighter.Pat fronted an irrigation scheme..Poe became a highly respected banker in Roswell. However the truth that Pat never killed BTK eventually caught up with him and sealed his fate -even though history could not be changed -Pat's enemies and Billy's friends always knew the truth -no wonder Brushy never let his guard down... even in some respects with Morrison
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 14:12:43 GMT -5
Are you saying it would have been impossible for them to get the info they needed? Could they not start with the info provided by Morrison and what they could get from newspaper articles and such and then just ask around some? There must have been some ways to find out about genealogy before the internet also? Perhaps they got some help from someone they knew who was "in the know" of how to gather info like that? The supposition that the Bowdins wrote the letter to themselves is nothing more than speculation, as are the sources you proposed to obtain information contained in the letter. The census records do not mean much I do not think. Tunstill may have gotten some things wrong. I am not saying that he did not, but the fact of the matter is that even if he did, it is not Brushy's fault. Brushy could have honestly been told this was his genealogy. I find the Pittmon letter to be suspicious in its wording. The reason, she waited 37 years after Brushy's death to say this; why tell Frederick Nolan? He is not a legal authority, nor is he the only historian to research Billy the Kid; and the part about her husband not wanting people to know, why write Nolan and not Tunstill? Why write either? If she really thought this, then why not write the letter earlier, and to a figure of some government authority in Texas or New Mexico or both.
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Post by RonBk on Apr 10, 2022 1:49:00 GMT -5
Ive been trying to find possible photos of this Marion F Turner. I came upon this fellow who have some resemblance with the guy in the Jones brothers photo. Im not suggesting this is the same Marion, but what do you think? Eve Ball might have got some things wrong, and if it is true that the Jones family said thats Billy the Kid, well then it probably is him. Anyway here is a photo of a Francis Marion "Frank" Turner (1860–1937). It says he was born in Ohio.
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Post by chivato88 on Apr 10, 2022 6:11:37 GMT -5
Ive been trying to find possible photos of this Marion F Turner. I came upon this fellow who have some resemblance with the guy in the Jones brothers photo. Im not suggesting this is the same Marion, but what do you think? Eve Ball might have got some things wrong, and if it is true that the Jones family said thats Billy the Kid, well then it probably is him. Anyway here is a photo of a Francis Marion "Frank" Turner (1860–1937). It says he was born in Ohio. View AttachmentMa'am Jones and the rest of the family did not liked Turner except for Jon. I dont think the boys would go against their mother and take a picture with him and then keep it in the family. From day 1 she had a bad feeling about him and she was right as once he shot a mexican just to see him kick. He was a bad fellow
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Post by RonBk on Apr 10, 2022 8:39:25 GMT -5
Its probably not the same Marion. According to this source Marion F Turner was born in 1832. If that info is correct it would seem unlikely Marion is the guy in the photo with the Jones brothers. www.wikitree.com/wiki/Turner-8739
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Post by chivato88 on Apr 10, 2022 10:29:44 GMT -5
Its probably not the same Marion. According to this source Marion F Turner was born in 1832. If that info is correct it would seem unlikely Marion is the guy in the photo with the Jones brothers. www.wikitree.com/wiki/Turner-8739I agree 100% that is not Turner on the Jones photo, and never have I believed it. I believe its the Kid, why would they lie about a thing like that? No personal gain would come of it at that time. And it was already difficult to talk to them cause apparently they did not like to talk about their history.
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Post by RonBk on Apr 10, 2022 11:13:13 GMT -5
I agree, the Jones brothers had no reason to lie and they must have known exactly who was in that photo. I wonder why Eve Ball thought it was Turner. Maybe she was just speculating?
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Post by MissyS on Apr 10, 2022 13:18:32 GMT -5
The man sitting at left in that group photo was identified as Bob Speaks also by a couple Jones bros, but Eve Ball said the man seated at left was Buck Powell, if she got the one mistaken she may have also have gotten Marion Turner mistaken as well? I located a couple images of Buck Powell: www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/powell.html I couldn’t find one of Bob Speaks to compare, it doesn’t mean she was right or wrong about Marion Turner it’s just interesting if she could have been right in identifying Buck Powell?
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Post by MissyS on Apr 10, 2022 16:15:20 GMT -5
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Post by RonBk on Jun 16, 2022 19:39:50 GMT -5
That's a real good theory. The Billy in this photo looks much more like Billy the kid in my opinion. John Jones looks like the same John in both photos.
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Post by Elwood on Jun 16, 2022 20:58:18 GMT -5
That's a real good theory. The Billy in this photo looks much more like Billy the kid in my opinion. John Jones looks like the same John in both photos. The Billy the Kid author Fred Nolan passed away this week, in his 90s. He had compile quite a bit of data over the years. Note that in his LCW book, he had that particular photo of Billy the Kid with the two Jones brothers, listed as Marion Turner.
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