|
Post by Wayne Land on Jul 13, 2021 8:21:40 GMT -5
Thank you Leeb.
|
|
|
Post by RonBk on Jul 13, 2021 17:46:27 GMT -5
I have noticed there is a pattern, not just on this board but also on the various facebook groups, that a lot of anti brushy commentators come out as extremely sarcastic, self-righteous and offensive. Why is that? Because they’re insecure and know that the other side’s arguments in favour of have more merit than they’d like them to. It’s bordering on gaslighting territory in my opinion. I totally agree. There is clearly a pattern among the anti-brushy of abusive behavior. The modus operandi is to repeatedly attack your opponent on a personal level. Their goal seems to be to try to make their opponents feel bad about themselves. Like that demon who is the voice in your head that tries to convince you that you are completely worthless when you wake up in the middle of the night. They are just like that.
|
|
|
Post by cassandra jane on Jul 13, 2021 18:26:31 GMT -5
Because they’re insecure and know that the other side’s arguments in favour of have more merit than they’d like them to. It’s bordering on gaslighting territory in my opinion. I totally agree. There is clearly a pattern among the anti-brushy of abusive behavior. The modus operandi is to repeatedly attack your opponent on a personal level. Their goal seems to be to try to make their opponents feel bad about themselves. Like that demon who is the voice in your head that tries to convince you that you are completely worthless when you wake up in the middle of the night. They are just like that. For me as a naturally reactive human being it’s such a nightmare honestly. I can’t control my temper nor the anxiety and obsession that arises as a result of people pulling stunts like that. I regularly have to block/mute/delete people for attacking things I believe in (even if for some reason they don’t know I do believe x y z).
|
|
|
Post by devorerd on Jul 19, 2021 12:34:09 GMT -5
I totally agree. There is clearly a pattern among the anti-brushy of abusive behavior. The modus operandi is to repeatedly attack your opponent on a personal level. Their goal seems to be to try to make their opponents feel bad about themselves. Like that demon who is the voice in your head that tries to convince you that you are completely worthless when you wake up in the middle of the night. They are just like that. For me as a naturally reactive human being it’s such a nightmare honestly. I can’t control my temper nor the anxiety and obsession that arises as a result of people pulling stunts like that. I regularly have to block/mute/delete people for attacking things I believe in (even if for some reason they don’t know I do believe x y z). I believe the correct term for these types is called "Neo Historians".
|
|
|
Post by kerry on Jul 19, 2021 20:38:46 GMT -5
Human resistence to change is always there...when it becomes resentment to change on a personal level -youv'e moving towards the Tall Poppy Syndrome which took out Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy. Lincoln comented - a thousand Angels swearing he was right would make no difference...Too many BTK's story is just so intense -just so incredible that he just had to die in 1881.The idea the BTK and Pat Garrett functioned on a whole different level -is just too much...the same with Wyatt Earp and of curse Old Iron Butt.Many an authentic but unacceptable icons of history -simply disappear down memory holes ...
|
|
|
Post by cassandra jane on Jul 19, 2021 20:54:13 GMT -5
Human resistence to change is always there...when it becomes resentment to change on a personal level -youv'e moving towards the Tall Poppy Syndrome which took out Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy. Lincoln comented - a thousand Angels swearing he was right would make no difference...Too many BTK's story is just so intense -just so incredible that he just had to die in 1881.The idea the BTK and Pat Garrett functioned on a whole different level -is just too much...the same with Wyatt Earp and of curse Old Iron Butt.Many an authentic but unacceptable icons of history -simply disappear down memory holes ... First time ever hearing “tall poppy syndrome” but as a phrase I love it.
|
|
|
Post by kerry on Jul 20, 2021 11:16:52 GMT -5
I think the Brushy Bill saga should be compared to the case of Frank Finkel rather than that of J Frank Dalton...Both were fiercely claimed to be imposters - yet both just knew too much to have not been the person they claimed to be.. Both were victims of their own success in concealing their true identity for decades before making their claims -after 40 years the history had either been set in stone or forgotten so they struggled to establish who they were -and key information only they knew could never be confirmed...
|
|
|
Post by kerry on Jul 20, 2021 18:38:16 GMT -5
Pat Garrett was a tall poppy and seems to have been unpopular to the point of making enemies..unfortunately to support Brushy I have to attack Pat which is uncomfortable as he is an established legendary figure. However I do believe as part of the deal Garrett did something quite honourable for BTK which ensured his silence for a lifetime -Pat of course could never reveal that his fame(and 500 dollars) was fraudulent and almost cost the life of an innocent man. I think Paulita Maxwell described Pat as rather sullen but very talkative and a great story teller.He seemed to have been aiming for public office other than sherriff and seemed to have trouble getting elected to both -even his 1880 election to Lincoln county was courtesy of John Chisum and he didn't complete the full term.I see Garrett as quite a tragic figure - like Poe -neither a killer or a gunfighter-but unlike Poe, real success always eluded him .
|
|
|
Post by chivato88 on Jul 20, 2021 19:16:40 GMT -5
Pat Garrett was a tall poppy and seems to have been unpopular to the point of making enemies..unfortunately to support Brushy I have to attack Pat which is uncomfortable as he is an established legendary figure. However I do believe as part of the deal Garrett did something quite honourable for BTK which ensured his silence for a lifetime -Pat of course could never reveal that his fame(and 500 dollars) was fraudulent and almost cost the life of an innocent man. I think Paulita Maxwell described Pat as rather sullen but very talkative and a great story teller.He seemed to have been aiming for public office other than sherriff and seemed to have trouble getting elected to both -even his 1880 election to Lincoln county was courtesy of John Chisum and he didn't complete the full term.I see Garrett as quite a tragic figure - like Poe -neither a killer or a gunfighter-but unlike Poe, real success always eluded him . I hate to attack him as well, but he wasnt exactly a role model, hung out with prostitutes, gamble all is money( he was not really good at it), and drank a whole lot while his wife was at home taking care of the family, Poe's wife did not liked him at all, its sad but its true. And there's a rumor that he started a family in Texas and abandonned them...
|
|
|
Post by kerry on Jul 20, 2021 20:41:22 GMT -5
Yes -even his neighbor's wife ordered Pat off their property at gun point when he called to see her husband -Adamson. Yet Pat Garrett didn't deserve to die the way he did -I think it was a conspiracy like all assasinations...he had amassed powerful enemies about him -men looking at goats.Their patsy got an unseemly quick exoneration - no one seemed to care Poe long after Pat's death -still had great respect for him as a lawman.
|
|
|
Post by Brushy on Oct 29, 2021 2:43:38 GMT -5
Morrison obtained five sworn affidavits. DeWitt Travis, Martile Able, Severo Gallegos, Jose B. Montoya, and Robert E. Lee all swore that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid.DeWitt Travis signed an affidavit saying that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid. Not possible. DeWitt was born about 8 years after the reported death of Billy the Kid. DeWitt Travis was born 28 March 1890 and died 26 February 1961.
|
|
Jeffy Dolmer The Ringer
Guest
|
Post by Jeffy Dolmer The Ringer on Oct 29, 2021 2:46:19 GMT -5
Robert E Lee signed a sworn affidavit that Brushy Bill Roberts was Billy the Kid?🤣🤣🤣🤣
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Oct 29, 2021 10:32:13 GMT -5
That was a different Robert E. Lee. I don't believe Travis' or Lee's affidavits stated they had known Brushy prior to 1881. They just said he was Billy. They didn't say how they knew that. Was it because he told them he was? Probably. At any rate, their affidavits aren't worth that much as evidence. Gallegos' affidavit is the most important because he definitely knew Billy prior to 1881 and possibly Martile Ables' because her husband was in position to have known Billy prior to 1881.
|
|
|
Post by BrushyBillLives on Aug 27, 2023 8:18:18 GMT -5
Lots of "ifs" here. If Severo knew Billy the Kid. If the story that Severo got a rope for Billy is true. If Severo said he had seen Billy on a number of occasions. If Severo remembered how Billy's eyes looked after 70 years. If Severo was not coached by William V. Morrison. "I really have to point out that in my opinion, Severo did not identify Oliver Pleasant Roberts as Billy The Kid. He identified William H. Roberts as Billy The Kid." You are correct. It is your opinion. The fact remains, there is no proof that William Henry McCarty Antrim, or Billy the Kid, was alive after 1881. There is, however, a record of Henry McCarty and Joseph McCarty as witnesses to the marriage of William H. Antrim and Catherine McCarty in Santa Fe. There is no documented proof that Brushy Bill engaged in any of the exploits he claimed. There is no record or proof of when Brushy Bill arrived of Van Zandt County. Affidavits are not proof. The explanation supporting the lack of documentation is simple. Wanted men living under an alias leave no paper trail. The same is true of men who never existed. They leave no paper trail. Oliver Pleasant Roberts left a paper trail a mile wide from his 1879 birth until his 1950 death. There is nothing that supports the theory that Oliver P. Roberts disappeared before the 1910 just because the birthplace of his parents was shown as Kentucky in the 1910 census. There is nothing that supports Brushy Bill's story that he was Billy the Kid but the word of Brushy Bill and five affidavits of dubious veracity. I have to point out, in my opinion, Severo Gallegos, if he identified anyone as Billy the Kid, it was Oliver Pleasant Roberts masquerading as Brushy Bill. I base that opinion on the overwhelming amount of records and documentation about the life of Oliver Pleasant Roberts, and the absence of ANY credible documentation of the exploits claimed by Brushy Bill, and the total lack of records supporting Brushy Bill's imaginary genealogy. I have a single question for you to ponder. As well as a couple facts. In 1986 I joined the army, went to Cali, Texas and overseas, yet i’m listed on the census as living in Michigan. A falsehood as I am where I just said for over a 16 year span i continued to be listed in Michigan after leaving the army, but now driving truck in all 48 and Canada. This said how can it be possible I’m living in Michigan when in fact hadn’t been in the state maybe 20 times during those years? Also when using the census, keep in mind we have another issue. Billy appears in it at the age of 25, and we know for sure that’s a lie. A problem I have with people using a census for tracking and verifying someone’s whereabouts is, they did not issue any form of identification. Plus whoever was taking it did not make it clear to say hey I was told this is Jim Jones home, but the family says he’s been on the range up in backwater Alaska for the last 20 years. They took the family info from whoever was residing there. Even worse, let’s say they came to take a census and your not home, They may ask a neighbor or just fill in previous info known. I take a census with a grain of salt as it’s truly hit or miss if the person taking the info, or the person giving it included members that may or may not actually live there. There’s many instances where someone is listed because a parent, wife, or what have you said who they were related to, and it be used to document a member in the household, but that person is not living in the home. I’ve never read in history a mandated check point to appear at to sign a census, or an existence of way to truly identify whose actually saying anything for information. Do you take census as the gospel on where people actually live?
|
|
|
Post by LifeOnACactus on Aug 27, 2023 8:33:57 GMT -5
The affidavit of Martile Able. Martile Able is buried in the Concordia Cemetery in El Paso. John C. Ables is buried there also. Martile was born 2 November 1873. She married John C. Able in 1898 in Taylor County, Texas. Her 1952 obituary said she had been a resident of El Paso for about 50 years. She was about 8 years old, living in central Texas, when Sheriff Garrett filed the fatal shot. The El Paso Herald Post of 25 November 1950 reports that Martile Able said Billy the Kid visited her in July. That must have been when William V. Morrison brought Brushy Bill to El Paso and introduced Brushy Bill to Martile as Billy the Kid. It seems extremely improbable that a young girl living in central Texas would have met Billy the Kid prior to 1881. The affidavit of Martile Able confirms that she thought Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid, probably because William V. Morrison told her. The affidavit does not prove that Martile had seen Billy the Kid before 1882, or that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid. You do realize a certain man once claimed to Be Billy, and when he was questioned by Mrs Able he left town never claiming to BTK ever again? You do also realize, the very same Mrs Able was a suggestion by a certain author who told Morrison visit her, and he did exactly that. How is it she asked the same question to both the pretender and to Brushy, yet Brushy is able to answer Mrs Able correctly? I ponder why that certain author made the suggestion and Brushy answered, yet the first imposter she denies.. Yet many overlook that part of whole event. Or use her age as discredit. Obviously Mrs Able held some kind of measurable credibility or that certain person would not have said hey go see her.
|
|