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Post by tboor74 on Nov 28, 2023 3:51:22 GMT -5
Bar the nickname, which due to timelines I assume was adopted post NM BTK, there's no link or similarities, Brushy seems very specific to the original BTK.
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Post by thumbuster on Nov 30, 2023 1:18:02 GMT -5
It was my understanding that Sederwall did not obtain any useable DNA. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. Sederwall said that it was 2 different bits of dna from the bench, and at that time it seemed impossible to separate the two, but that today it could most likely be done. That the DNA is still put away in a courthouse somewhere, as is the DNA of John Miller. He's just sitting on it. He's a bit demoralized because so many people tried to prevent any further action from taking place. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all I have sat in Steve Sederwall's living room several times. My wife and I RON'd in his guest bedroom. Steve and his wife, Carolyn are very nice and interesting folks. She a wonderful cook/hostess. Steve and I discussed the saga of the Kid and BB ad infinitum (Sure wish I could spell.) Steve appears to me to be pretty burned out over the whole trying to dig up Billy's grave thing. The newspapers, public opinion, the courts really came after him. He just wanted to get to the truth of the matter. I don't want to speak for Steve, here, but I count him as a good friend. Carolyn too.
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Post by thumbuster on Nov 30, 2023 1:29:14 GMT -5
It was my understanding that Sederwall did not obtain any useable DNA. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. Me too. Steve told me that any blood residue they found was probably from cleaning chickens. I think he said he was able to locate two sources of blood on that old bench, but that it wasn't usable. It has been a long time, like a decade since we spoke and my 78 year old memory isn't all that great.
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 30, 2023 2:00:02 GMT -5
It was my understanding that Sederwall did not obtain any useable DNA. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. Me too. Steve told me that any blood residue they found was probably from cleaning chickens. I think he said he was able to locate two sources of blood on that old bench, but that it wasn't usable. It has been a long time, like a decade since we spoke and my 78 year old memory isn't all that great. youtu.be/GtKC_f0Gaco?si=SKnMdvlplhiDoGUE11 months ago. He doesn't say the samples were unusable. He says there's two dna profiles on the bench, and at the time it probably wasn't possible to unravel both from each other. But that the dna is still at the courthouse, and perhaps it could be unraveled today. That was an interview Sederwall did with the Back to Billy channel on YouTube. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by DanJohno on Nov 30, 2023 7:28:47 GMT -5
Doesn't Sederwall know who was on that bench that night but if he releases the DNA results then Gail Cooper will sue him for 100 grand?
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Post by DanJohno on Nov 30, 2023 8:20:46 GMT -5
It was my understanding that Sederwall did not obtain any useable DNA. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. Me too. Steve told me that any blood residue they found was probably from cleaning chickens. I think he said he was able to locate two sources of blood on that old bench, but that it wasn't usable. It has been a long time, like a decade since we spoke and my 78 year old memory isn't all that great. I'm currently sitting in a restaurant in Bali contemplating this whole Billy the kid scene and the whole thing is doing my head in. Every time Daniel Edwards finds new evidence people come out of hiding to state their own long list of facts that Brushy wasn't Billy. But if Billy was your family then I believe everything you say. If he's your family then I guess you are right. Garrett shot Billy and that's the end of it. History isn't exactly how it's written but in this case it is. I'd rather go back to believing Billy died young. It's all good, Billy was still a legend and he's one of my heroes no matter what.
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 30, 2023 17:20:37 GMT -5
Doesn't Sederwall know who was on that bench that night but if he releases the DNA results then Gail Cooper will sue him for 100 grand? The problem I have with Sederwall is that he says everything cryptically as if he is joking a lot of the time. But from what I can gather it seems that he is no longer putting money into the project and therefore it'll take until next year for this dna lab to release the findings. ((Shrugs)) Make of that what you will. That's what he said recently on that Cold West Facebook group. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by DanJohno on Nov 30, 2023 18:51:14 GMT -5
Doesn't Sederwall know who was on that bench that night but if he releases the DNA results then Gail Cooper will sue him for 100 grand? The problem I have with Sederwall is that he says everything cryptically as if he is joking a lot of the time. But from what I can gather it seems that he is no longer putting money into the project and therefore it'll take until next year for this dna lab to release the findings. ((Shrugs)) Make of that what you will. That's what he said recently on that Cold West Facebook group. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all I've just lost faith in the research of either side of this debate. The whole thing is driving me nuts. The evidence on either side isn't very good. It feels like the deeper I go into Billy's history the more confused I get. It all just seems like a deliberate diversion. I thought Frederick Nolan threatened Sederwall during Sederwall's forensic research but then later they became friends. I really don't know who to trust or what to believe anymore. I don't blame anyone for choosing either side because the evidence for both sides is horrendous. I need to step back and not take it all so seriously.
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Post by chivato88 on Nov 30, 2023 19:30:25 GMT -5
Doesn't Sederwall know who was on that bench that night but if he releases the DNA results then Gail Cooper will sue him for 100 grand? The problem I have with Sederwall is that he says everything cryptically as if he is joking a lot of the time. But from what I can gather it seems that he is no longer putting money into the project and therefore it'll take until next year for this dna lab to release the findings. ((Shrugs)) Make of that what you will. That's what he said recently on that Cold West Facebook group. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all He seemed to have pulled himself away from everything. He used to ran that Facebook page until those jerks from the coalition took over. Im suprise that he posted, I joined that page because of him and I left shortly after he quit running the page.
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Post by chivato88 on Nov 30, 2023 19:32:35 GMT -5
The problem I have with Sederwall is that he says everything cryptically as if he is joking a lot of the time. But from what I can gather it seems that he is no longer putting money into the project and therefore it'll take until next year for this dna lab to release the findings. ((Shrugs)) Make of that what you will. That's what he said recently on that Cold West Facebook group. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all I've just lost faith in the research of either side of this debate. The whole thing is driving me nuts. The evidence on either side isn't very good. It feels like the deeper I go into Billy's history the more confused I get. It all just seems like a deliberate diversion. I thought Frederick Nolan threatened Sederwall during Sederwall's forensic research but then later they became friends. I really don't know who to trust or what to believe anymore. I don't blame anyone for choosing either side because the evidence for both sides is horrendous. I need to step back and not take it all so seriously. Believe me , I know how you feel
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Post by texas truth teller on Nov 30, 2023 23:42:26 GMT -5
I've just lost faith in the research of either side of this debate. The whole thing is driving me nuts. The evidence on either side isn't very good. It feels like the deeper I go into Billy's history the more confused I get. It all just seems like a deliberate diversion. Documenting the life of Billy the Kid is an historian’s nightmare. These seem to be the only meaningful documents about the life of Billy the Kid. 1. NM trial records. 2. Presbyterian marriage record of William Antrim and Catherine McCarty in San Fe witnessed by Henry and Joe McCarty. 3. 1880 NM census record of William Bonny and Charlie Bowdre. 4. William Antrim’s 1915 application for a military pension that indicated Catherine’s prior husband, McCarty, died in New York City, and that she was the mother of 2 boys; one who died in the ‘80s and the other had not been seen for 14 years. 5. Coroners report. (disputed) Oliver P Roberts left an obvious paper trail of marriage, divorce, death, WWI registration, cemetery, land, and census records from 1880 to 1950, with several inconsistencies in birth year and birth place.
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Post by DanJohno on Dec 1, 2023 0:19:42 GMT -5
I've just lost faith in the research of either side of this debate. The whole thing is driving me nuts. The evidence on either side isn't very good. It feels like the deeper I go into Billy's history the more confused I get. It all just seems like a deliberate diversion. Documenting the life of Billy the Kid is an historian’s nightmare. These seem to be the only meaningful documents about the life of Billy the Kid. 1. NM trial records. 2. Presbyterian marriage record of William Antrim and Catherine McCarty in San Fe witnessed by Henry and Joe McCarty. 3. 1880 NM census record of William Bonny and Charlie Bowdre. 4. William Antrim’s 1915 application for a military pension that indicated Catherine’s prior husband, McCarty, died in New York City, and that she was the mother of 2 boys; one who died in the ‘80s and the other had not been seen for 14 years. 5. Coroners report. (disputed) Oliver P Roberts left an obvious paper trail of marriage, divorce, death, WWI registration, cemetery, land, and census records from 1880 to 1950, with several inconsistencies in birth year and birth place. You are right about it being a nightmare! I've only been involved in Billy's history for about 4 or 5 years and I'm exhausted already. Maybe Young Guns 2 made the whole story look better than it really was.
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Post by texas truth teller on Dec 1, 2023 11:35:54 GMT -5
Documenting the life of Billy the Kid is an historian’s nightmare. These seem to be the only meaningful documents about the life of Billy the Kid. 1. NM trial records. 2. Presbyterian marriage record of William Antrim and Catherine McCarty in San Fe witnessed by Henry and Joe McCarty. 3. 1880 NM census record of William Bonny and Charlie Bowdre. 4. William Antrim’s 1915 application for a military pension that indicated Catherine’s prior husband, McCarty, died in New York City, and that she was the mother of 2 boys; one who died in the ‘80s and the other had not been seen for 14 years. 5. Coroners report. (disputed) Oliver P Roberts left an obvious paper trail of marriage, divorce, death, WWI registration, cemetery, land, and census records from 1880 to 1950, with several inconsistencies in birth year and birth place. You are right about it being a nightmare! I've only been involved in Billy's history for about 4 or 5 years and I'm exhausted already. Maybe Young Guns 2 made the whole story look better than it really was. Brushy told a fascinating story of his life. His version of characters and events in Lincoln County is credible, very similar to published accounts, except for his description of events the night of 14 July 1881 and afterward. None of Brushy’s many exploits have been confirmed by and with primary, independent sources. No official record of William Henry Roberts has been found (other than his posthumous cemetery marker). No record of any family member Brushy identified has been found (other than Martha Heath, who was a half-sister, not a cousin, of Brushy/Oliver Roberts). No official record of Brushy Bill Roberts has been found. The absence of records about William Henry Roberts/Brushy Bill Roberts is explained by an unsubstantiated assumption that Oliver Pleasant Roberts was vaporized by a powerful laser about 1911, and Brushy assumed his identity.
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Post by DanJohno on Dec 1, 2023 18:53:42 GMT -5
You are right about it being a nightmare! I've only been involved in Billy's history for about 4 or 5 years and I'm exhausted already. Maybe Young Guns 2 made the whole story look better than it really was. Brushy told a fascinating story of his life. His version of characters and events in Lincoln County is credible, very similar to published accounts, except for his description of events the night of 14 July 1881 and afterward. None of Brushy’s many exploits have been confirmed by and with primary, independent sources. No official record of William Henry Roberts has been found (other than his posthumous cemetery marker). No record of any family member Brushy identified has been found (other than Martha Heath, who was a half-sister, not a cousin, of Brushy/Oliver Roberts). No official record of Brushy Bill Roberts has been found. The absence of records about William Henry Roberts/Brushy Bill Roberts is explained by an unsubstantiated assumption that Oliver Pleasant Roberts was vaporized by a powerful laser about 1911, and Brushy assumed his identity. I'm disappointed I wasted so much energy on this whole scene.
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Dec 1, 2023 19:14:25 GMT -5
Brushy told a fascinating story of his life. His version of characters and events in Lincoln County is credible, very similar to published accounts, except for his description of events the night of 14 July 1881 and afterward. None of Brushy’s many exploits have been confirmed by and with primary, independent sources. No official record of William Henry Roberts has been found (other than his posthumous cemetery marker). No record of any family member Brushy identified has been found (other than Martha Heath, who was a half-sister, not a cousin, of Brushy/Oliver Roberts). No official record of Brushy Bill Roberts has been found. The absence of records about William Henry Roberts/Brushy Bill Roberts is explained by an unsubstantiated assumption that Oliver Pleasant Roberts was vaporized by a powerful laser about 1911, and Brushy assumed his identity. I'm disappointed I wasted so much energy on this whole scene. It's not as bad as TTT makes it out to be. There is some evidence that some of what Roberts said about his life was true. Problem is most simply refuse to do research, or stop after a few dead-ends. Guys like TTT, in my opinion, made their own conclusions ages ago and haven't budged one inch since. I've been coming here off and on for years and he keeps repeating censuses, no matter how many times it's pointed out to him there's a 20+ month window where Brushy could've stepped into another person's life, etc. I don't think it's true but at least I'm giving the possibility of it being true the chance to be considered. Then again here's the problem with "Alias Billy The Kid", not everything that was on the tapes or in the notebooks or in photographs was in the book. What Morrison did not include is just as mysterious as anything else in the whole saga of Brushy Bill Roberts. For example, in Morrison's personal letters apparently mentions that Brushy Bill Roberts had a daughter. But who she is, etc nobody seems to know. For me personally I think there's truths and partial truths along with flat out lies out of Roberts mouth, and that's why now and then we find little mentions in newspapers (for example) that seem to validate certain things he claimed. For instance, it is a historical fact that horses/cattle from Argentina were brought to Texas and vice versa, and that many men did go from Argentina to the Shetland Islands to get Shetland ponies. Brushy claimed he went to both places for those reasons. While not concrete proof of anything, it's a string of truth that demonstrates that he wasn't just pulling things out of thin air either. And as I have said before concerning his known genealogy, there is all of these ties to people like Sam Houston and Monroe Harper and criminals like George Birdwell, etc. It's all about research my friend. And a lot of times you have to think outside the box in order to find interesting things. If you just look at everything straight on like TTT does, then you'll never find anything substantial. But I think one thing we can all agree on whether we think Brushy was The Kid or not, there are enough inconsistencies and issues and problems with what happened that night in Fort Sumner that we can agree that Garrett and Coe's version of events is NOT what really happened. That's not to mean that Billy The Kid survived. It may very well mean that a lot of underhanded things occurred in order to kill him. But we can agree that the whole thing is not kosher. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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