The Stolen Photos (Dan Edwards)

[WhisperingBillyBarlow]

After subscribing to the channel and buying the membership I've been watching this particular video, and I find it fascinating because of the association between Brushy Bill Roberts and J. Frank Dalton.

In old video interviews with Ola Everhart she mentioned how when Brushy died he was sending a letter to J. Frank Dalton and how years earlier Dalton even stayed at Brushy's house for a time. They were good friends.

According to Edwards, Brushy had several pictures that he gave Mr Houck (associate of Dalton) to be published in a magazine, but that these were never returned. Houck also wanted Brushy apparently to sign over his life story for a movie deal, but he wanted no part of Houck and denied being Billy The Kid after Dalton told Houck that Brushy was Billy.

The relationship with J. Frank Dalton is a black eye to Brushy's claims, but I do think it interesting just how far back did their friendship actually go? He was certainly older than Brushy was, and I know for a fact he was living in Gladewater for a time during the oil boom when Brushy was. Plat maps would be interesting see where exactly Dalton resided in proximity to Brushy Bill Roberts.

As I've mentioned before, there is an uncle by marriage that Brushy Bill Roberts had named Francis Dunn known as "Preacher Frank," and its noted he knew Jesse James. Could it be that Dunn always thought Dalton was Jesse and because of this Brushy thought Dalton was too?

It'd be interesting to see if Dalton was actually on a census in the same area as Francis Dunn. If that is the case then that Scooby-Doo mystery is solved. Lastly, it might be mentioned that many believe that Houck himself was the son of grandson of J. Frank Dalton and that's how he had such control over the old man. That Dalton's real name was Obediah Houck and he left his family behind to go to Texas.

But it's extremely difficult to know exactly who Dalton was because in Dalton's case he kept changing his name and kept changing his stories. He certainly wasn't Jesse James, but he was all the same a man of mystery.

Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all

[Wayne Land]

That is a very interesting post. I'm curious how you know about this uncle by marriage named Francis Dunn and where it was noted that he knew Jesse James. Also, consider that, contrary to popular belief, it has never been "proven" that Dalton was not Jesse James. The DNA from the exhumation of James' grave was not retrieved from the grave itself. It was from a tooth found on the James farm. That tooth was assumed to have been from the original burial site of Jesse James but it may not have been, or it could have gotten there without being from the body that was buried in that original grave. Even the forensic scientist that did the testing never said it was "proven" that the real Jesse was in the grave they exhumed. What he basically said was that all the information they had "supported" or led toward the belief the body was the real Jesse. What did they have? They had a skull with a bullet hole in it. Was that Jesse's skull or was it just the skull of the man who was shot in his place? They had DNA that matched the James descendants. Was that DNA obtained from the exhumed grave? No, it was not.

Now don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying Dalton was Jesse James. I'm just saying it has not been proven he wasn't. Plus, whether he was or wasn't, I object to Brushy's association with him being used to mean Brushy was not Billy. It is possible that 1) Brushy was Billy but met Dalton and mistakenly believed his claim of being Jesse 2) Brushy was Billy and met Dalton and, for some reason, played along with his claim of being Jesse. Either way, Dalton's true identity, whomever he was, does not "prove" who Brushy really was. It just doesn't.

[WhisperingBillyBarlow]

Oct 31, 2023 12:03:46 GMT -5 Wayne Land said:

That is a very interesting post. I'm curious how you know about this uncle by marriage named Francis Dunn and where it was noted that he knew Jesse James. Also, consider that, contrary to popular belief, it has never been "proven" that Dalton was not Jesse James. The DNA from the exhumation of James' grave was not retrieved from the grave itself. It was from a tooth found on the James farm. That tooth was assumed to have been from the original burial site of Jesse James but it may not have been, or it could have gotten there without being from the body that was buried in that original grave. Even the forensic scientist that did the testing never said it was "proven" that the real Jesse was in the grave they exhumed. What he basically said was that all the information they had "supported" or led toward the belief the body was the real Jesse. What did they have? They had a skull with a bullet hole in it. Was that Jesse's skull or was it just the skull of the man who was shot in his place? They had DNA that matched the James descendants. Was that DNA obtained from the exhumed grave? No, it was not.

Now don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying Dalton was Jesse James. I'm just saying it has not been proven he wasn't. Plus, whether he was or wasn't, I object to Brushy's association with him being used to mean Brushy was not Billy. It is possible that 1) Brushy was Billy but met Dalton and mistakenly believed his claim of being Jesse 2) Brushy was Billy and met Dalton and, for some reason, played along with his claim of being Jesse. Either way, Dalton's true identity, whomever he was, does not "prove" who Brushy really was. It just doesn't.

#1- Hard to follow a bit, but here goes: Thomas Dunn, the brother of Francis Marion Dunn (who was Caroline Dunn's father) had a son named Francis Dunn called "Preacher Frank." He was born in 1833 and died 1896 in Franklin County Arkansas. According to his Find A Grave page the following story can be found:

www.findagrave.com/memorial/34676751/elder-francis-dunn?fbclid=IwAR1F2Xy6gQ2tFrzq9zPmO_f8lXfhPydGBdwu9X1zpYHSJk3TZ77pdqRa9bE

"The Jessie James gang had gone somewhere east of the Charleston area and robbed a bank or train. One of the gang members got shot in the leg, and the bone was broken. Jessie, Frank, and the other gang members hid out in an old cabin just west of where Preacher Frank was living. Preacher Frank was supposed to have sold them supplies and shod their horses while they were hiding from the law. One day, "Father Frank," as Jessie called him, told Jessie that the Bible said that you were supposed to earn your living by the sweat of your brow. Jessie told Preacher Frank that when you had every last cent you had in the middle of a poker table and was about to loose it, that this was earning your living by the sweat of your brow."

It would be interesting to cross reference this story about a robbery by the James Gang in Charleston Arkansas. If there is no mention of Jesse, Frank, etc in Charleston Arkansas then one ought to see if the name "Obediah Houck" or "Frank Dolby" or "Frank Darby" was in the area. Or for that matter if any information exists as to whether J. Frank Dalton was ever in Charleston Arkansas. If so, then my hypothesis that Brushy thought Dalton was Jesse because of his great uncle Frank might be correct.

It's also worth noting that Caroline Dunn and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson were related. Both women Henry Oliver Roberts married. SEF was the daughter of Martha Bolinger Riggs who was the half-sister of Caroline Dunn. Therefore SEF was the half-niece of Caroline Dunn, so "Preacher" Frank was both their relative.

#2- Dalton was disproven on the basis of a myriad of factors: His handwriting did not match known Jesse James writings, he was not of similar proportions to Jesse James, he was incapable of answering questions presented to him by family members of Jesse James and from local historians with inside information, and he could not prove his own story. For example, he applied for a Confederate pension by claiming his father fought against Mexico and he was born in Goliad Texas but the state could not find any records of him or his alleged father. Furthermore, the eyewitness testimony of Ed Bartholomew attests that Orvus Lee Houck and J. Frank Dalton were working together prior to him "coming out" as Jesse James when Dalton himself briefly claimed to be "The Kid" and prior to that claimed to be lawman Frank Dalton.

#3- As for DNA since Zerelda only had 2 sons, and the tooth/hair samples found at the original gravesite on the family homestead were a match to her, and the body of Jesse James was also dug up at the Mt Olivet cemetery and retrieved DNA from 2 teeth of 4 extracted and was a match to the tooth/hair samples, etc--- there's no denying that it was Jesse James since Zerelda's son Frank was buried in Missouri and he was cremated. So he couldn't have left any dna behind. Unless people want to believe Zerelda had previously unknown, undocumented children.

thegeneticgenealogist.com/2008/02/15/famous-dna-review-part-iv-jesse-james/

www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2000/05/07/dna-test-points-to-outlaws-identity/62199323007/

To quote Phil Stewart, leading historian involved in the exhumation: "Some say the tooth (used for the DNA testing) did not come from the grave. There is no doubt it did," Stewart said. "The experts who were on this case are not going to jeopardize their reputations by falsifying information."

The only people who challenged the validity of the exhumation and DNA, unsurprisingly, were Orvus Lee Houck's son who styled himself as Jesse James III (or IV I forget which) and a woman named Betty Dorsett Duke who also claimed that Jesse James didn't die but was her great grandfather living under the alias James L. Courtney. Neither of whom have ever gave DNA of their own to test against known living descendants of the James family, which ought to speak volumes about how invalid their claims are.

#4- As I stated before it doesn't necessarily rule out Brushy as Billy The Kid but the associations with Dalton and Carson, among others of questionable standing, does taint the credibility of Brushy Bill Roberts because it makes it all the more easier to believe he was the same as they were--- therefore Roberts should held to a high standard, and rightly so, because he has to go above and beyond to remove all doubt. It's arguably unfair, but from my vantage point the best way to beat the charges of fraud is to completely crush the criticism by finding irrefutable evidence and creating a major gulf between Dalton and Brushy. Which brings me back to point #1 that I made: IF it's possible J. Frank Dalton knew Francis Dunn, then that's where Brushy Bill Roberts got to know J. Frank Dalton, and if that's the case then Brushy Bill Roberts was mistaken because his great half uncle was also mistaken. So, let's try to find Dalton in Charleston Arkansas.

Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all

[Wayne Land]

Thank you so much for sharing all that WhisperingBillyBarlow. Pretty convincing I'll say, that Dalton was a fraud. The only thing that still gives me a bit of a pause is the stories I had previously read that suggested the tooth or teeth they extracted DNA from did not come from the Mt. Olivet gravesite. These articles insist they did come from the grave but is that a fact? There was something about a Tupperware bowl buried on the James farm that contained teeth. I doubt I can find much more on that but I'll do some searching. Again, I don't really care that much whether Dalton was or was not Jesse James. Either way I don't accept that it proves anything much about Brushy. But I'll see if I can find anything more and share it here if I do.

[Wayne Land]

This is an excerpt from an article in the "National Library of Medicine".

<<We report here the results of mtDNA analysis of remains exhumed in July, 1995 from Mt. Olivet Cemetery in Kearney, Nebraska, that are thought to be those of Jesse James. The remains were poorly preserved, presumably due to wet and slightly acidic soil conditions, and insufficient DNA for analysis was obtained from two bone samples. However, two of four teeth, and two hairs recovered in 1978 from the original burial site on the James Farm, did yield reproducible mtDNA sequences. These mtDNA sequences from the teeth and hairs were all identical, suggesting that they came from the same individual;>>

So this article clearly is stating the teeth and hairs that provided useable DNA came from the James farm and not from the Mt. Olivet cemetery.

[Texas Truth Teller]

Oct 31, 2023 17:13:05 GMT -5 Wayne Land said:

Thank you so much for sharing all that WhisperingBillyBarlow. Pretty convincing I'll say, that Dalton was a fraud. The only thing that still gives me a bit of a pause is the stories I had previously read that suggested the tooth or teeth they extracted DNA from did not come from the Mt. Olivet gravesite. These articles insist they did come from the grave but is that a fact? There was something about a Tupperware bowl buried on the James farm that contained teeth. I doubt I can find much more on that but I'll do some searching. Again, I don't really care that much whether Dalton was or was not Jesse James. Either way I don't accept that it proves anything much about Brushy. But I'll see if I can find anything more and share it here if I do.

HathiTrust, “The Crittenden Memoirs”, babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015046411057&seq=390&q1=dalton

Excerpt from “The Crittenden Memoirs”, p. 368, letter written by Frank Dalton

“I was in Fort Riley, Kan., when Bob Ford shot him on April 3, 1882, and it was known that I had soldiered him under Quantrill during the latter part of the Civil War, I was sent for to identify him and did so to the best of my ability, and have always been positive (and yet am for that matter) that the man killed was Jesse James.”

[WhisperingBillyBarlow]

Oct 31, 2023 17:26:14 GMT -5 Wayne Land said:

This is an excerpt from an article in the "National Library of Medicine".

<<We report here the results of mtDNA analysis of remains exhumed in July, 1995 from Mt. Olivet Cemetery in Kearney, Nebraska, that are thought to be those of Jesse James. The remains were poorly preserved, presumably due to wet and slightly acidic soil conditions, and insufficient DNA for analysis was obtained from two bone samples. However, two of four teeth, and two hairs recovered in 1978 from the original burial site on the James Farm, did yield reproducible mtDNA sequences. These mtDNA sequences from the teeth and hairs were all identical, suggesting that they came from the same individual;>>

So this article clearly is stating the teeth and hairs that provided useable DNA came from the James farm and not from the Mt. Olivet cemetery.

The remains at the Mt Olivet cemetery matched size and known injuries JJ had in life, along with specific features on teeth that proved the person at one point had an extremely high fever leaving fever lines on the teeth. JJ had such a fever as a boy. And, I keep reading 2 of 4 teeth from Mt Olivet matched the hair discovered at the original burial site. Regardless, I think it is conclusive that Jesse James did indeed die at the hands of Bob Ford.

Anyways, I will try to find some sort of evidence of Dalton in Charleston. It'll be difficult considering I'm limited in resources, and it's hard to find things when you don't have accounts fully funded to search censuses, archives, etc.

Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all