Brushy is not Billy the Kid (Stop the wishful thinking)

[TomHorn28390]

Brushy is not Billy. Brushy does not even have the same jawline as Billy nor does he look 90 in any of his last photos better again Brushy’s own grand grand-nephew wrote a whole book discrediting Brushy. Why was Brushy friends with another imposter in J. Frank Dalton? I mean surely if good ol’ Brushy was the real Billy he’d know that being a friend of Dalton’s would make him lose credibility. Billy the Kid had light brown to blondish hair whereas Brushy had dark hair. How this Brushy forum has sprung I have no idea.…

I am not saying Billy had died that evening, but he is not Brushy. I have seen many alleged photos of Billy that are much more convincing than Brushy. Also, just so you know that Billy’s friends that supposedly claimed Brushy was the outlaw would have been in their 90s meaning they could have had all sort of memory issues e.g. dementia.

Brushy was a nice guy, but crazy…

[texas truth teller]

Aug 30, 2022 6:46:06 GMT -5 TomHorn28390 said:

Brushy is not Billy. Brushy does not even have the same jawline as Billy nor does he look 90 in any of his last photos better again Brushy’s own grand grand-nephew wrote a whole book discrediting Brushy. Why was Brushy friends with another imposter in J. Frank Dalton? I mean surely if good ol’ Brushy was the real Billy he’d know that being a friend of Dalton’s would make him lose credibility. Billy the Kid had light brown to blondish hair whereas Brushy had dark hair. How this Brushy forum has sprung I have no idea.…

I am not saying Billy had died that evening, but he is not Brushy. I have seen many alleged photos of Billy that are much more convincing than Brushy. Also, just so you know that Billy’s friends that supposedly claimed Brushy was the outlaw would have been in their 90s meaning they could have had all sort of memory issues e.g. dementia.

Brushy was a nice guy, but crazy…

Could have Brushy Bill been Billy the Kid? No credible, verifiable evidence has been found indicates that he was.

There are some pros and cons in the debate.
PRO:
Brushy’s knowledge of the Lincoln County war is impressive (although very similar to “Saga of Billy the Kid”, published in 1926).
Five sworn affidavits from those who BELIEVE Brushy was Billy the Kid (although only two affiants lived in Lincoln County and saw BtK).
Numerous post-1881 photographs, sightings, and stories (unsubstantiated).

CON:
Coroners report of Billy the Kid’s death in 1881.
The paper trail of Oliver Roberts’ life from 1880 to 1950 at 10 year intervals.
No record of William Henry Roberts has been found (other than a cemetery marker).
No record of Brushy’s claimed parents, cousin, or half-brother has been found.
No record has been found that Catherine McCarty had a half-sister, or was ever known as Mrs. Bonney.
WWI draft registration card has Brushy’s actual birth name, Oliver P Roberts, and birthdate, 26 August 1879.
Brushy's birth name and birth date confirmed by his niece, Geneva Roberts Pittmon, daughter of Thomas U Roberts.

[Wayne Land]

Where to start? It’s all been discussed many times prior. But I’ll touch on a few points you both made.

The jawline: Most of the photos we have of Brushy show him after his teeth were all removed. Being toothless changes the jawline to a more square shape, plus the tintype of Billy shows him with his mouth slightly open, which elongates the jaw a bit.

J. Frank Dalton: Contrary to popular belief, Dalton was never “proven” to be a fraud. When they realized they’d dug up the wrong body they resorted to using DNA from a tooth found on the James Farm. Of course a tooth found on the James farm would likely belong to someone in the James family resulting in a DNA match.

Light hair: The tintype of BTK clearly does not show a man with light hair. A contemporary witness did describe him that way but there are numerous possibilities why that description could have been misleading.

Witnesses: There is no evidence that any of the individuals who identified Brushy were suffering from any mental issues.

Coroners report: Bogus report written likely by Garrett himself.

Paper trail of Oliver Roberts’ life from 1880 to 1950: Oliver Roberts was a real person with a real history but he was not Brushy.

No record of William H Roberts: Of course not, he spent most of his life pretending to be someone else.

No record of Brushy’s claimed parents: Not necessarily. There’s been none found that can be confirmed but there are possibilities.

Geneva Pittman: wasn’t even born until “after” Brushy took on the identity of Oliver P. Roberts. How would she know he was using an alias?

[texas truth teller]

Aug 30, 2022 21:27:39 GMT -5 Wayne Land said:

Where to start? It’s all been discussed many times prior. But I’ll touch on a few points you both made.

The jawline: Most of the photos we have of Brushy show him after his teeth were all removed. Being toothless changes the jawline to a more square shape, plus the tintype of Billy shows him with his mouth slightly open, which elongates the jaw a bit.

J. Frank Dalton: Contrary to popular belief, Dalton was never “proven” to be a fraud. When they realized they’d dug up the wrong body they resorted to using DNA from a tooth found on the James Farm. Of course a tooth found on the James farm would likely belong to someone in the James family resulting in a DNA match.

Light hair: The tintype of BTK clearly does not show a man with light hair. A contemporary witness did describe him that way but there are numerous possibilities why that description could have been misleading.

Witnesses: There is no evidence that any of the individuals who identified Brushy were suffering from any mental issues.

Coroners report: Bogus report written likely by Garrett himself.

Paper trail of Oliver Roberts’ life from 1880 to 1950: Oliver Roberts was a real person with a real history but he was not Brushy.

No record of William H Roberts: Of course not, he spent most of his life pretending to be someone else.

No record of Brushy’s claimed parents: Not necessarily. There’s been none found that can be confirmed but there are possibilities.

Geneva Pittman: wasn’t even born until “after” Brushy took on the identity of Oliver P. Roberts. How would she know he was using an alias?

Oliver Roberts was a real person. He is identified in 14 official government records. There are no records of the fictitious William Henry Roberts, just a tombstone with that name.  William Henry Roberts never had an alias, for he never existed.

The suggestion that William Henry Roberts assumed the identity of Oliver P Roberts on or about 1911 to avoid being identified as Billy the Kid is laughable. No evidence has been found that Oliver Roberts died, departed, changed his name, or otherwise disappeared from Van Zandt County at that time. No published literature prior to 1949 identified William Henry Roberts as Billy the Kid. There was no reason for Brushy to assume a different identity. Most remarkable is the birth date that Brushy chose, 26 August 1878, the birth date of Oliver Pleasant Roberts. Did he get the month and year from the 1900 census, or did he ask one of Oliver’s family members for that information?

Brushy Bill was the nickname of Oliver Pleasant Roberts.

Dismissing the authentic coroners jury report written in Spanish as the work of Pat Garrett reeks of desperation in an effort to sustain Brushy's fable.

J Frank Dalton is a proven liar. Dalton claimed he was the real Jesse Woodson James in 1948. He had applied for and received a Confederate pension from the state of Texas as John Dalton, born March 8, 1848. He later claimed to have been in every war since 1863, and that he was gassed while serving with the Canadian Army in World War I.

[DanJohno]

Aug 30, 2022 10:18:26 GMT -5 texas truth teller said:

Aug 30, 2022 6:46:06 GMT -5 TomHorn28390 said:

Brushy is not Billy. Brushy does not even have the same jawline as Billy nor does he look 90 in any of his last photos better again Brushy’s own grand grand-nephew wrote a whole book discrediting Brushy. Why was Brushy friends with another imposter in J. Frank Dalton? I mean surely if good ol’ Brushy was the real Billy he’d know that being a friend of Dalton’s would make him lose credibility. Billy the Kid had light brown to blondish hair whereas Brushy had dark hair. How this Brushy forum has sprung I have no idea.…

I am not saying Billy had died that evening, but he is not Brushy. I have seen many alleged photos of Billy that are much more convincing than Brushy. Also, just so you know that Billy’s friends that supposedly claimed Brushy was the outlaw would have been in their 90s meaning they could have had all sort of memory issues e.g. dementia.

Brushy was a nice guy, but crazy…

Could have Brushy Bill been Billy the Kid? No credible, verifiable evidence has been found indicates that he was.

There are some pros and cons in the debate.
PRO:
Brushy’s knowledge of the Lincoln County war is impressive (although very similar to “Saga of Billy the Kid”, published in 1926).
Five sworn affidavits from those who BELIEVE Brushy was Billy the Kid (although only two affiants lived in Lincoln County and saw BtK).
Numerous post-1881 photographs, sightings, and stories (unsubstantiated).

CON:
Coroners report of Billy the Kid’s death in 1881.
The paper trail of Oliver Roberts’ life from 1880 to 1950 at 10 year intervals.
No record of William Henry Roberts has been found (other than a cemetery marker).
No record of Brushy’s claimed parents, cousin, or half-brother has been found.
No record has been found that Catherine McCarty had a half-sister, or was ever known as Mrs. Bonney.
WWI draft registration card has Brushy’s actual birth name, Oliver P Roberts, and birthdate, 26 August 1879.
Brushy's birth name and birth date confirmed by his niece, Geneva Roberts Pittmon, daughter of Thomas U Roberts.

How many events in The Saga of Billy The Kid were different to Brushy's story? Please describe in vivid detail how much he stole from that book and also how much was different.
How much was similar and how much was just Brushy's own imagination?