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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 4, 2022 20:53:45 GMT -5
Why did Brushy fail to tell Morrison that one of his aliases was "Oliver P. Roberts"? Who says he didn't tell him that. I would assume Morrison already knew that when he traveled to Hico to meet Brushy.
Geneva Roberts was too young to be able to offer firsthand testimony as to Brushy's true identity. Why must you insist on continuing to bring up what she said. Her comments don't prove anything. She believed what she was told. She was not a witness to the fact.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 4, 2022 20:57:22 GMT -5
Show me a record that says one of Brushy's "older" siblings or parents stated under oath that he was the real Oliver P. Roberts. Someone who knew him since he was a child. Or just show me where one of them said he was "not" Billy The Kid. That would be evidence that would carry some weight. Geneva Pittmon's beliefs mean nothing.
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Post by chivato88 on Aug 4, 2022 20:58:28 GMT -5
Thank You, chivato88 for sharing these. It’s sad that this historical site looks so dilapidated, I wish either the State or whomever that’s so much depending on the Billy the Kid tourism could restore this place to its splendor before it turns out like the hut at Stinking Springs, nothing left but scattered bricks or stones in the weeds. I’v noticed that there’s been Billy the Kid items and other items related to the Lincoln County War that were offered up for auction from museums and historical homes up for sale in the Lincoln area, and now I see these photos of a historical site that was a part of the Lincoln County War yet deteriorating, it seems to me that tourist dollars isn’t so important like it was. The State and Counties seemed to cared to try and keep these towns and sites as much unchanged as possible as to how it was in Billy the Kid’s time. Maybe the generation of people that wanted to cherish the past and loved it’s history and wanted to hang on to it is fading to a new generation that don’t care so much about the history to invest in its past? I hope I’m wrong. My pleasure MissyS, when I find something worth sharing the first thing I do is post it here.And you right they should do something to restore it or at least preserve it,its a sad scene
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Post by texas truth teller on Aug 4, 2022 22:28:22 GMT -5
Again the draft comments. I wasn't around to know what it was like in 1918 but I can suggest there was much pressure on eligible men to show up and register. Assuming that was the case, Brushy, who was pretending to be Oliver P. Roberts born 1879 would have been someone the authorities would have expected to register, regardless of what his real, undisclosed birthdate was. So if he was questioned about whether he had registered he wasn't going to say "I don't have to because I'm not really Oliver P. and I was in fact born before 1871." He would likely have been asked to prove that which he wouldn't want to do because he didn't want to be arrested and hung as Billy The Kid. So, he went in and registered figuring that was the best way he could protect his true identity. I'm not saying I can prove any of that, but heck, you can't prove your theories either. I know you think you can, but thinking it doesn't make it so. And no, you can't prove any of that. Just the facts WWI Registration On 5 June 1917, a total of 9,586,508 men aged 21 to 31 registered for the draft. (those born between 5 June 1886 and 5 June 1896) On 5 June 1918, Second Registration Day, males who had reached the age of 21 since the first call on 5 June 1917 were to register. (those born between 6 June 1896 and 5 June 1897) There was a Supplemental Second Registration Day on 24 August 1918 on which males who attained the age of 21 since 5 June 1918 were to register. (those born between 6 June 1897 and 24 August 1897) Finally, a Third Registration Day was declared on 12 September 1918. On that date, all persons aged 18 to 20 and 31 to 45 who had not previously registered were to file their registrations. (those born between 12 September 1872 and 12 September 1900) Sure enough, Oliver's birth year fell in the Third Registration Day. The WWI registration card of Oliver Pleasant Roberts aka Brushy Bill, born 26 August 1878 (1879), is dated September 12, 1918 in accordance with the law.
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Post by texas truth teller on Aug 4, 2022 23:21:43 GMT -5
Show me a record that says one of Brushy's "older" siblings or parents stated under oath that he was the real Oliver P. Roberts. Someone who knew him since he was a child. Or just show me where one of them said he was "not" Billy The Kid. That would be evidence that would carry some weight. Geneva Pittmon's beliefs mean nothing. Paul Emerson was a grandson of Martha Vada Roberts Heath, Oliver’s half-sister. Please refer to the 1986 letter of Paul Emerson to Mr Tunstill on page 43 of "Brushy Bill....Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale?" Excerpts: Dear Mr Tunstill, I have read your letters and articles your sent to my sister, Eulaine Haws about Oliver who said he was Billy the Kid. You have certainly done a lot of research and worked hard. I find it very interesting and fascinating to say the least. I remember meeting Oliver Roberts, who was my grandmother’s brother, at my grandmother’s house, not too long before my grandmother died. …………. To be honest, my grandmother did not believe he was Billy the Kid, and did not have confidence in what he said. She thought it was in the imagination of his mind. Page 42 2014 email from Paul Emerson to Roy Haws Excerpt: I don’t remember for sure how old I was when Brushy (Oliver) came to see grandmother. I could have been a little older than 16, and we all knew he claimed to be Billy the Kid,……… I do remember my grandmother saying he was not Billy the Kid.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 5, 2022 10:27:11 GMT -5
TTT. Your list of draft registrations prove absolutely nothing as to Brushy's true identity and they do not show my theory of why he registered to be incorrect in any way. As for your family quotes, I said "under oath". These comments are he said she said information and are not verifiable "records" of family members of Brushy's age and older. They're hearsay. They could be more or less accurate quotes depending on context and circumstances. They're not proof of anything.
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Post by chivato88 on Aug 5, 2022 11:56:17 GMT -5
Show me a record that says one of Brushy's "older" siblings or parents stated under oath that he was the real Oliver P. Roberts. Someone who knew him since he was a child. Or just show me where one of them said he was "not" Billy The Kid. That would be evidence that would carry some weight. Geneva Pittmon's beliefs mean nothing. Paul Emerson was a grandson of Martha Vada Roberts Heath, Oliver’s half-sister. Please refer to the 1986 letter of Paul Emerson to Mr Tunstill on page 43 of "Brushy Bill....Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale?" Excerpts: Dear Mr Tunstill, I have read your letters and articles your sent to my sister, Eulaine Haws about Oliver who said he was Billy the Kid. You have certainly done a lot of research and worked hard. I find it very interesting and fascinating to say the least. I remember meeting Oliver Roberts, who was my grandmother’s brother, at my grandmother’s house, not too long before my grandmother died. …………. To be honest, my grandmother did not believe he was Billy the Kid, and did not have confidence in what he said. She thought it was in the imagination of his mind. Page 42 2014 email from Paul Emerson to Roy Haws Excerpt: I don’t remember for sure how old I was when Brushy (Oliver) came to see grandmother. I could have been a little older than 16, and we all knew he claimed to be Billy the Kid,……… I do remember my grandmother saying he was not Billy the Kid. Like you say to us, hearsay dont prove nothing
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Post by leeb on Aug 5, 2022 13:51:12 GMT -5
TTT. Your list of draft registrations prove absolutely nothing as to Brushy's true identity and they do not show my theory of why he registered to be incorrect in any way. As for your family quotes, I said "under oath". These comments are he said she said information and are not verifiable "records" of family members of Brushy's age and older. They're hearsay. They could be more or less accurate quotes depending on context and circumstances. They're not proof of anything. Don't you swear by signed affidavits that ain't worth the paper there written on? 6 and 2 3's Wayne.
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Post by texas truth teller on Aug 5, 2022 16:04:03 GMT -5
TTT. Your list of draft registrations prove absolutely nothing as to Brushy's true identity and they do not show my theory of why he registered to be incorrect in any way. As for your family quotes, I said "under oath". These comments are he said she said information and are not verifiable "records" of family members of Brushy's age and older. They're hearsay. They could be more or less accurate quotes depending on context and circumstances. They're not proof of anything. I said "under oath". Forgive me, but I do not not recall that Brushy Bill said anything under oath. What part of his family history can be verified? No credible record of either of his parents has been found. No credible record of his half-brother James Roberts, born ca. 1865. No credible record of his cousin Ollie Roberts, born 1867. There are records of others Brushy named as relatives. His claimed step-mother, Elizabeth Ferguson, was the mother of Oliver P Roberts. His claimed cousin Martha Heath was Martha Vada Roberts Heath, half-sister of Oliver P. Roberts.
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Post by DanJohno on Aug 6, 2022 8:20:17 GMT -5
TTT. Your list of draft registrations prove absolutely nothing as to Brushy's true identity and they do not show my theory of why he registered to be incorrect in any way. As for your family quotes, I said "under oath". These comments are he said she said information and are not verifiable "records" of family members of Brushy's age and older. They're hearsay. They could be more or less accurate quotes depending on context and circumstances. They're not proof of anything. Don't you swear by signed affidavits that ain't worth the paper there written on? 6 and 2 3's Wayne. Why are affidavits not worth the paper they are printed on? Do judges in courts say this or just you?
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Post by leeb on Aug 6, 2022 10:33:26 GMT -5
An affidavit cannot be signed by someone who has been coerced or not in sound state of mind.
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Post by texas truth teller on Aug 6, 2022 11:07:42 GMT -5
An affidavit cannot be signed by someone who has been coerced or not in sound state of mind. Because an affidavit does not allow for cross-examination of the witness, however, an affidavit may constitute unchallenged prejudicial evidence. (Is that a legal term for "inaccurate"?) Robert E Lee, in his affidavit, swore he first saw Wm Bonney, alias Billy the Kid, in the summer of 1889. That was several years after the fatal shot was fired. Obviously Robert E Lee had never seen Billy the Kid before his reported death, and could not conclusively identify the man he saw in 1889 was Billy the Kid Elbert DeWitt Travis, born 26 March 1889, in his affidavit, swore he had known Wm H Roberts all of his life, and that he was Billy the Kid. Another affidavit not worth the paper it is written on.
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Post by MissyS on Aug 6, 2022 11:17:45 GMT -5
A signed affidavit is like swearing under oath to tell the truth, usually witnessed by someone present and notarized and is more trusting than just heresy. If someone were coerced to sign it they can probably attest to it. Just wondering did any of Brushy’s family sign an affidavit that he was not Billy the Kid?, It may not have crossed their mind to do that, but did any of his family tell the press or come forward publicly themselves not as a second or third person but themselves to verify that Brushy wasn’t Billy?, and if so were they old enough to know this with all certainty? Not just family really, his school friends, employees that worked with him, church members, town folks, neighbors, basically anyone that was close to him that could possibly verify his age to say he wasn’t Billy the Kid, oddly none of those non relatives came forward. Looks like the only affidavits signed were ones that helped to verify Brushy’s claims?
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Post by leeb on Aug 6, 2022 11:40:37 GMT -5
Was Roy Hawes not related to Brushy?
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Post by MissyS on Aug 6, 2022 13:02:36 GMT -5
I may be mistaken, however I believe Brushy was Roy Haw’s Maternal half Great Granduncle. Him being related to Brushy helped him in a unique way to share photos and research for his book, and I will admit he did have some strong claims to consider, and I did consider them, however I still have unanswered questions.
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