Brushy’s cousin

[MissyS]

I was wondering when was the cousin killed whose identity Brushy used, and how old would he have been? Looking at cowboys or outlaws in Texas that was killed a name caught my eye, his name was “Judd Roberts”, an outlaw in Texas that little is known about that was killed around 1887 by a Texas Ranger named Aten and a future Texas Ranger named John Hughes. I was wondering if the name “Judd” could have been his alias name? Judd Roberts hung around Fredericksburg Texas and broke out of a jail in San Antonio, he stole horses in the panhandle and I believe that’s where the shootout may have occurred. I’m having trouble finding more about Judd Roberts if that was his real name or alias name and how old he actually was when he was killed? I don’t know if it’s even possible Judd Roberts could have been Brushy’s cousin? It’s just an idea. I don’t know where exactly or when Brushy said his cousin was killed? On page 135 of W.C. Jameson’s Billy the Kid The Lost Interviews book, Brushy mentions that he knew Ranger Captain Hughes, he was his friend. I wonder if this is the same Texas Ranger that helped to kill Judd Roberts? Also in the same Lost Interviews book Brushy was discussing the battle which took place in Mexico around June 1899  Brushy said they crossed the Rio Grande just below Del Rio, Brushy mentioned he had a cousin there on the Ranger force and he helped them with food. What cousin could he be referring to that was a Ranger? Could this be the one that was killed whose identity he used? Any thoughts or ideas? 

[MissyS]

I’m leaning toward Brushy’s cousin was using an alias name when he died the reason is that possibly the family wasn’t notified of his death for some reason and the family was readily able to accept Brushy as the lost cousin, word to them of the cousin’s death probably never arrived, It could be he was misidentified? identification wasn’t as easily done as it is now with fingerprinting and everyone carrying some sort of I D. How Brushy was able to know his cousin was deceased before the immediate family is interesting? Seems the only ways of this happening is if Brushy was working for some type of detective agency and happen on the dead cousin or was friends with the officer that possibly shot the cousin or found the dead man and told Brushy, but however it happened Brushy happened to be present at the right place and time to identify the man and recognized who he was, a somewhat rare opportunity. The cousin may have been away for sometime maybe missing for a number of years for the family to overlook details of his appearance and be accepting of Brushy as him, he was probably close to the same age as Brushy but since Brushy looked younger than his age maybe the cousin was a little younger? I wonder what is really known about the cousin if he could have been a Ranger or an outlaw or just a runaway trying to find his way? Thinking about it if he was a Ranger then there’s little chance of his identity not being known to notify the family, he would be known to the Ranger force unless he used an alias name when he was recruited. So the cousin Brushy mentioned that worked for the Ranger force I was thinking could be him probably wasn’t the cousin in question?

[RonBk]

Good points and valid questions. But do you think there was another cousin besides Oliver Pleasant? Ive always thought that Brushy assumed the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts, and that Oliver L was merely a mistake in spelling or something like that. Or was there actually two different Olivers?

[cassandra jane]

Jul 4, 2022 6:35:20 GMT -5 RonBk said:

Good points and valid questions. But do you think there was another cousin besides Oliver Pleasant? Ive always thought that Brushy assumed the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts, and that Oliver L was merely a mistake in spelling or something like that. Or was there actually two different Olivers?

There had to be two different men if we’re to go on the Judd Roberts hypothesis - if the identity-stolen Oliver was born in 1879 it’s impossible for him to have been Judd. Could be possible that two cousins were both killed or disappeared but seems a bit convenient/coincidental. Maybe Brushy was Judd. Though to be fair I’m still trying to reread the other posts here because they’re not quite processing in my head.

[tboor74]

How popular a name was Roberts back in the day in Texas? I'm in a hurry so haven't time to read back or check census records now.

Whatever the truth in ,all this here's a Judd Roberts, with ties to Williamson County.

Was the dead/alive Jim McDaniels in Round Rock at this time (That's where he was name checked I think) and they're all not a kick in the nuts away from Buffalo Gap.

What a web

[MissyS]

Jul 4, 2022 6:35:20 GMT -5 RonBk said:

Good points and valid questions. But do you think there was another cousin besides Oliver Pleasant? Ive always thought that Brushy assumed the identity of Oliver Pleasant Roberts, and that Oliver L was merely a mistake in spelling or something like that. Or was there actually two different Olivers?

I’m not sure about the two cousins idea really, it was suggested on the board sometime ago about that possibility and I was wondering about that question when I saw the name of the outlaw Judd Roberts, he wouldn’t fit the time frame if the cousin was supposed to have been born 1879, and I wasn’t sure if Judd Roberts could even be a consideration really? The name Roberts stuck out but Roberts is a more common name. I was looking for any names of men in the area or vicinity of Texas that may have any chance of being a candidate of the cousin perhaps if something could be found in newspapers, but I’m probably looking in the wrong time frame. I was able to dig up a little bit about Judd Roberts that he was said to have been an associate of Butch Cassidy's Hole in the Wall gang. I wasn’t able to positively verify that. I wish more questions was asked to Brushy about that cousin. I believe Brushy said he was a distant cousin. Can anyone suggest a time frame for the cousin?, Does anyone know when he died or was killed?
Happy 4th to everyone. 

[paddyrobertstx]

so many fake names and grey histories with the names of the era, as much as people will refer to census records a lot of them from that area are worthless as many people were drifting with the work.
as fr the name Roberts - not an unknown name but a good few - there were a lot of irish settlers in Texas around this time of expansion and its a fairly regular british name. my family tree goes back to mid 1700s around Texas, New Mexico and Arizona and theres a few of us

[chivato88]

Clyde has posted solid evidence on his Brushy's facebook page concerning Brushy's signature compared to Ollie Roberts's signature, Im no expert in that domain but its quite obvious that the 2 signatures are different. I suggest that you guys check it out.

[Wayne Land]

I still think the cousin Brushy originally referred to was born in 1868. I think that’s why his original tombstone and death certificate showed that date. But then after he returned to the family he realized it was better to become Oliver Pleasant. Oliver was a name used at least twice in the family, Oliver Pleasant and his father Henry Oliver. Maybe it was three times, thus the two cousin Oliver’s?

[paddyrobertstx]

Believe Oliver and the P initial are used frequently in the family tree. I'm.with you on the 1868 cousin - please remember these are families where there are 5 or 6 kids having 5 or 6 kids having 5 or 6 kids - the spread is vast!

[texas truth teller]

Sept 12, 2022 12:59:26 GMT -5 Wayne Land said:

I still think the cousin Brushy originally referred to was born in 1868. I think that’s why his original tombstone and death certificate showed that date. But then after he returned to the family he realized it was better to become Oliver Pleasant. Oliver was a name used at least twice in the family, Oliver Pleasant and his father Henry Oliver. Maybe it was three times, thus the two cousin Oliver’s?

Brushy did say he had a cousin born in 1867.

There are quite a few descendants of Joseph Roberts (ca. 1783-ca.1858) of Virginia, and Rachael Henson (11 Aug 1828-3 Oct 1863) of Georgia.  Among the descendants are a son, Henry Oliver Roberts (18 May 1852-21 Mar 1924); a grandson, Oliver Pleasant Roberts (26 Aug 1879-27 Dec 1950); a great grandson, Henry Oliver Roberts (12 Aug 1912-30 June 1985), who was the son of Andrew Berry Roberts (1877-1923) and grandson of Oliver Pleasant Roberts (26 Aug 1879-27 Dec 1950); a granddaughter, Ollie Odessa Roberts (2 Nov 1904-30 Jun 1989) the daughter of Virgil Alexander Roberts.

[texas truth teller]

CORRECTION:

Brushy did say he had a cousin born in 1867.

There are quite a few descendants of Joseph Roberts (ca. 1783-ca.1858) of Virginia, and Rachael Henson (11 Aug 1828-3 Oct 1863) of Georgia. Among the descendants are a son, Henry Oliver Roberts (18 May 1852-21 Mar 1924); a grandson, Oliver Pleasant Roberts (26 Aug 1879-27 Dec 1950); a great grandson, Henry Oliver Roberts (12 Aug 1912-30 June 1985), who was the son of Andrew Berry Roberts (1877-1923); a granddaughter, Ollie Odessa Roberts (2 Nov 1904-30 Jun 1989) the daughter of Virgil Alexander Roberts.