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Post by bloodybeaver on Jul 26, 2021 5:42:26 GMT -5
Hey ya'll, sorry for all the questions...I'm just trying to fill in some gaps, as well as double check myself. If I'm not mistaken, the first official document where Brushy can be found using the middle initial L. was on January 14th, 1945 Marriage Certificate to Malinda E. Allison, in Hamilton, Texas. Is this correct?
I know 7 months prior, on June 22, 1944, there's an Ollie Roberts listed as husband on the death certificate for Luticia Ballard Roberts in Van Zandt County, Texas.
Are these two Ollie's the same person? If so, how do we know for sure?
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Post by texas truth teller on Jul 27, 2021 12:07:09 GMT -5
Hey ya'll, sorry for all the questions...I'm just trying to fill in some gaps, as well as double check myself. If I'm not mistaken, the first official document where Brushy can be found using the middle initial L. was on January 14th, 1945 Marriage Certificate to Malinda E. Allison, in Hamilton, Texas. Is this correct? I know 7 months prior, on June 22, 1944, there's an Ollie Roberts listed as husband on the death certificate for Luticia Ballard Roberts in Van Zandt County, Texas. Are these two Ollie's the same person? If so, how do we know for sure? Because Brushy claimed he married Mollie Brown, Lutecia Ballard, and Malinda "Lizzie" Allison.
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Post by kerry on Jul 27, 2021 15:45:17 GMT -5
Well 2B -you have a sliding scale operating ...there's no Brushy DNA( yet) -but we have the US Census -Ancestry.com - the family Bible considered sacrosanct and irrefutable - descending to Brushy whose undoubtably lying even if he were...the disturbing facts he brought to the table are shunned by the legitimate historians (as well as the emerging imagery of Billy)...yet its clear -history is a living thing and subjective...at least some historians were prepared to indulge in trooper Finkel's story -perhaps because he had become a successful member of society when he emerged from his dark past almost like Brushy.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 27, 2021 18:08:54 GMT -5
Well 2B -you have a sliding scale operating ...there's no Brushy DNA( yet) -but we have the US Census -Ancestry.com - the family Bible considered sacrosanct and irrefutable - descending to Brushy whose undoubtably lying even if he were...the disturbing facts he brought to the table are shunned by the legitimate historians (as well as the emerging imagery of Billy)...yet its clear -history is a living thing and subjective...at least some historians were prepared to indulge in trooper Finkel's story -perhaps because he had become a successful member of society when he emerged from his dark past almost like Brushy. There are at least two references to a Bible associated with Brushy's story. W C Jameson, in "The Lost Interviews", pages 39 & 40, created a dialog between Morrison and Roberts, where Brushy points to a family Bible that confirms his date of birth, and information about his father. (A very important revelation not included in "Alias Billy the Kid".)
Geneva Roberts Pittmon, a niece of Oliver P Roberts, in her letter of 16 December 1987 to Joe Bowlin, said she had the family Bible record. She identified Brushy Bill as Oliver P Roberts, and his date of birth as 26 August 1879. www.angelfire.com/nm/boybanditking/page30.html
Brushy's birth date on his WWI registration card was 26 August 1879.
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Post by chivato88 on Jul 27, 2021 19:26:28 GMT -5
The Geneva Roberts Pittmon part, you've said it at least a hundred time on the board and its getting really old, and she as never met him so how come are you so persistent with her? Most of us dont even care about her version of thing, there is no meat on the bone when you mention her...
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Post by texas truth teller on Jul 27, 2021 21:15:44 GMT -5
The Geneva Roberts Pittmon part, you've said it at least a hundred time on the board and its getting really old, and she as never met him so how come are you so persistent with her? Most of us dont even care about her version of thing, there is no meat on the bone when you mention her... I realize your interest in evidence is limited to that which supports Brushy's story. Tell me how Jameson came up with the family Bible story that Morrison failed to mention after he interviewed Brushy?
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Post by devorerd on Jul 27, 2021 22:22:21 GMT -5
The Geneva Roberts Pittmon part, you've said it at least a hundred time on the board and its getting really old, and she as never met him so how come are you so persistent with her? Most of us dont even care about her version of thing, there is no meat on the bone when you mention her... I realize your interest in evidence is limited to that which supports Brushy's story. Tell me how Jameson came up with the family Bible story that Morrison failed to mention after he interviewed Brushy? So TT, realize your big on census, ancestry, etc. You are a firm believer that Brushy read all the books that equipped him with at least general knowledge to start his claim. Do you have an opinion on: Roberts spoke about the secret meeting held with Lew Wallace and about the pardon that never came, which wouldn't be proven true until several years after Roberts death, how is that possible that he knew that? (Insert book reference please) Roberts claimed that he received a scarf from Dulvina Maxwell in exchange for the tintype photograph. (Insert book reference please) It wouldn't be until several years after Roberts death that a letter by Jim East to Charlie Siringo recalls this exact incident having transpired. How would Brushy haven known that? Roberts said that for the murder of Buckshot Roberts that Ira Leonard got the charges thrown out. This little known fact was little known in Roberts time by even historians.(Insert book reference please) So either this guy made up stuff, possible was psychic (low probability), had the memory of an elephant even in his later years or.......He was actually there? Cheers
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Post by kerry on Jul 27, 2021 22:46:42 GMT -5
3T - Brushy was a condemned man for 70 years...it was a matter of life or death,that he falsify as much information about himself as he could - as for military records....their attitude has always ranged between indifference to actual complicity in falsifying records-especially birth dates.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 27, 2021 23:34:44 GMT -5
3T - Brushy was a condemned man for 70 years...it was a matter of life or death,that he falsify as much information about himself as he could - as for military records....their attitude has always ranged between indifference to actual complicity in falsifying records-especially birth dates. A good argument, if he was really Billy the Kid. But what if Oliver P Roberts was hoping for the same fame J Frank Dalton attained when he "came out" as Jesse Woodson James?
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Post by DanJohno on Jul 28, 2021 0:50:09 GMT -5
Good old Dalton always arrives at the scene of any Brushy Bill party.
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Post by kerry on Jul 28, 2021 1:04:24 GMT -5
Fame is illusory - in their own lifetime many famous old western heroes were equally hated and detested..after their time - Hollywood sanitized some into icons .. Although John Ford remembered Wyatt Earp hanging around his studios giving advice on Western movies -he didn't know who Earp was...Pat Garrett in his lifetime was only admired decreasingly from afar. I think Brushy at 90 just wanted a clean slate.. he gave us as much as he could but DNA and autopsy are the key - like John Miller - I think he would approve.
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Post by RonBk on Jul 28, 2021 1:20:34 GMT -5
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Post by chivato88 on Jul 28, 2021 4:00:15 GMT -5
The Geneva Roberts Pittmon part, you've said it at least a hundred time on the board and its getting really old, and she as never met him so how come are you so persistent with her? Most of us dont even care about her version of thing, there is no meat on the bone when you mention her... I realize your interest in evidence is limited to that which supports Brushy's story. Tell me how Jameson came up with the family Bible story that Morrison failed to mention after he interviewed Brushy? First of all I was not talking about Jameson,second when you write the same **** over and over people get tired, and last I also realize that your interest in evidence is limited, you never acknowledge the solid evidence for Brushy, you always comeback the same BS arguments, if you dont have something new to say please control yourself b4 repeating the same old song.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 28, 2021 10:26:38 GMT -5
Good old Dalton always arrives at the scene of any Brushy Bill party. Or was it Brushy who traveled to Dalton's birthday party in Meramec Caverns, and to New York to vouch for Dalton's claim that he was Jesse James?
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Post by DanJohno on Jul 28, 2021 11:10:53 GMT -5
Good old Dalton always arrives at the scene of any Brushy Bill party. Or was it Brushy who traveled to Dalton's birthday party in Meramec Caverns, and to New York to vouch for Dalton's claim that he was Jesse James? I don't know mate. You're the one and only true expert who rules this forum so from now on I will let you do what you do best. Intimidate people into leaving and/or boring people to death with the same long posts about census records and World War 1 draft cards.
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