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Post by tboor74 on Dec 11, 2020 16:17:08 GMT -5
I've been playing around with an online facial comparison / recognition site. I'm just putting the results on here for interest and to spark debate...I have no idea how accurate it is!   The software says age makes a big difference, comparing 2 pics of different ages makes comparison progressively harder and an accurate reading less likley. As such, these 2 images are a 'low probability' of a match. Boo. However. |
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Post by tboor74 on Dec 11, 2020 16:18:44 GMT -5
However......   The probability of these 2 being the same individual is very high! |
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Post by tboor74 on Dec 11, 2020 16:20:01 GMT -5
And the probability of these 2 pics being the same individual is....   ....Very High!!! |
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Post by tboor74 on Dec 11, 2020 16:21:47 GMT -5
Then.... the likelihood of these 2 being the same, although not 'very high' is still significant and very possible.   |
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Post by tboor74 on Dec 11, 2020 16:24:04 GMT -5
And the likelihood of these 2 being the same person is .....   .....very high. Pick the bones out of that. Playing Devil's Advocate........What do we think? |
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Dec 11, 2020 17:55:13 GMT -5
And the likelihood of these 2 being the same person is ..... View AttachmentView Attachment.....very high. Pick the bones out of that. Playing Devil's Advocate........What do we think? The photo of the man with the cigar in his mouth is one of the men depicted in photographs immediately following page 58 of "Alias Billy the Kid", copyright 1955. The 4 men are identified as, left to right, Jim Jones, Bob Speakes (trail boss), John Jones, and Billy the Kid.
The same photograph of the 4 men is on page 157 of "The West of Billy the Kid" by Frederick Nolan, copyright 1998. The 4 men are identified by Eve Ball, to whom the photograph was given by the Jones family, as, left to right, Jim Jones, Bob Speakes, John Jones, and Marion F Turner. Others believe that the man at front left is Buck Powell, not Bob Speakes.
William A Tunstill showed a relative of Brushy Bill a photograph of Brushy Bill. She identified his as Ollie. She showed Willam A Tunstill a picture of her grandmother, which Tunstill said was one of the pictures following page 58 of Alias Billy the Kid, identified in the book as Mary Adeline Dunn. The picture hanging on her living room was Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Roberts. "Billy the Kid and Me Were the Same", William A Tunstill, pp 35-36.
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Post by RonBk on Dec 11, 2020 18:34:53 GMT -5
Did you try and compare the Photos of BTK and Brushy in his 20s? What were the results? And what online resource did you use?
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Post by Elwood on Dec 11, 2020 22:08:45 GMT -5
The photo of the man with the cigar in his mouth is one of the men depicted in photographs immediately following page 58 of "Alias Billy the Kid", copyright 1955. The 4 men are identified as, left to right, Jim Jones, Bob Speakes (trail boss), John Jones, and Billy the Kid.
The same photograph of the 4 men is on page 157 of "The West of Billy the Kid" by Frederick Nolan, copyright 1998. The 4 men are identified by Eve Ball, to whom the photograph was given by the Jones family, as, left to right, Jim Jones, Bob Speakes, John Jones, and Marion F Turner. Others believe that the man at front left is Buck Powell, not Bob Speakes.
Some descendants of the Ma'am Jones family were interviewed for a newspaper article in 1997: Carlsbad Current Oct. 15, 1997 page 8A The caption under the group photo which included John and Jim Jones: "Front, from left, John Jones and an unidentified trail boss employed by John Chisum during the Lincoln County War. Back row, from left, William "Billy the Kid" Bonney, Jim Jones." If Marion F. Turner is the young-looking man behind John Jones, then he was about 46 years old in 1878, the year of the photograph. Fred Nolan indicated that Marion Turner was born about 1832. |
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Post by Elwood on Dec 11, 2020 22:19:43 GMT -5
The same photograph of the 4 men is on page 157 of "The West of Billy the Kid" by Frederick Nolan, copyright 1998. The 4 men are identified by Eve Ball, to whom the photograph was given by the Jones family, as, left to right, Jim Jones, Bob Speakes, John Jones, and Marion F Turner. Others believe that the man at front left is Buck Powell, not Bob Speakes.
Some descendants of the Ma'am Jones family were interviewed for a newspaper article in 1997: Carlsbad Current Oct. 15, 1997 page 8A The caption under the group photo which included John and Jim Jones: "Front, from left, John Jones and an unidentified trail boss employed by John Chisum during the Lincoln County War. Back row, from left, William "Billy the Kid" Bonney, Jim Jones." If Marion F. Turner is the young-looking man behind John Jones, then he was about 46 years old in 1878, the year of the photograph. Fred Nolan indicated that Marion Turner was born about 1832. I forgot to add a link to the group of four men photograph in question. Note that this version is reversed left and right. |
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Post by MissyS on Dec 12, 2020 0:22:01 GMT -5
There was another photo of a group of men that sold at auction some time back that claimed it was of The Jones Brothers and Billy the Kid, I may have posted about it before? I think Billy the Kid is standing upper right? It says it’s of Tom, Jim and John, and Billy. I was curious about it’s authenticity, but since it was offered to be sold from the Fort Sumner Museum I thought it could have merit? I tried to find a full length photo of it, but was unable to locate it or anymore information about it except what the auction stated. amp.usatoday.com/story/news/local/2017/10/06/billy-kid-tintypes-antiques-bowlins-old-fort-sumner-museum-up-auction/740410001/ |
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Post by tboor74 on Dec 12, 2020 3:02:38 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting this proves anything, I just find it interesting. The fact that the software is better with similar aged faces and some of the young pics match whilst others don't is enlightening.Also, the lineage of the 3 Brushy pics being very high is significant. These 2 pics are quite possibly the same person but are not BTK or Brushy (according to this anyway).   |
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Post by tboor74 on Dec 12, 2020 3:06:35 GMT -5
Did you try and compare the Photos of BTK and Brushy in his 20s? What were the results? And what online resource did you use? I'll find the link, it's an online tool, that's why I said it's just a bit of fun really.....interesting though. Is this the pic you mean?  |
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Post by RonBk on Dec 12, 2020 4:26:26 GMT -5
Yes, how does that one match with the known BTK-tintype?
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Post by tboor74 on Dec 12, 2020 6:30:33 GMT -5
Low probability. I think one of the main issues is faces changing with age but also the awkward pose of the tintype, ie head tilted side and back and the teeth showing, no other pics are so awkward. I know that doesn't explain all but definitely has an effect.
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red
20 - 49 Posts
Posts: 26
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Post by red on Jan 9, 2021 2:29:18 GMT -5
Interesting. Could you try matching John Miller to billy the kid and brushy. An if you own Dan Edwards book; the picture on 88-89 to Brushy.
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