Catherine Antrim in Indiana?

[MissyS]

There was some posting some time back about the McCarty genealogy and that there was some discussion that Billy the Kid’s Mother or half Aunt may have been from Indiana. I recently bought a photograph I believe it’s a cabinet card that I want to share with the board, it may lend evidence that Catherine Antrim was in Indiana?, more likely before coming to Kansas, but what’s interesting also is what’s printed on the back of the photograph the name “Jas Bonney” as the artist; photographer. Jas Bonney was short for James Bonney and he was born 7 November, 1831 in Walton, England, the son of John Bonney (1789-1838) and Sarah Watts (1803-1873). He came to the United States circa 1838 and settled in Cape Girardeau County, Missouri; he was living there in 1850 with an older brother who was a shoemaker and two younger sisters. Circa 1858, James married Eliza A. Mangold, and the couple would have at least three children. He had a photo studio in South Bend Indiana, and he died in Lawrence, Kansas 18 April 1910 and was buried there. If he took Catherine’s photo in Indiana then she had to have been there, or passing through on her way to Kansas perhaps? There is an article that states that in 1902, The Silver City Enterprise newspaper interviewed Sherriff Harvey Whitehill about what he remembered about Billy, and he stated in that article that Billy’s right name was Henry McCarty, and he was born in Anderson, Indiana, however it was suggested that because William Antrim was from there that he assumed Catherine was too, so Whitehill could have been mistaken? I’m not saying the photo is proof of anything, it may very well be a coincidence that the lady in it resembles a photo of Catherine.

This first photo is a photo supposedly Catherine Antrim 

And the photo I aquired



 And the back of the photo

[Elwood]

Dec 7, 2020 21:09:19 GMT -5 MissyS said:

There was some posting some time back about the McCarty genealogy and that there was some discussion that Billy the Kid’s Mother or half Aunt may have been from Indiana. I recently bought a photograph I believe it’s a cabinet card that I want to share with the board, it may lend evidence that Catherine Antrim was in Indiana?, more likely before coming to Kansas, but what’s interesting also is what’s printed on the back of the photograph the name “Jas Bonney” as the artist; photographer. Jas Bonney was short for James Bonney and he was born 7 November, 1831 in Walton, England, the son of John Bonney (1789-1838) and Sarah Watts (1803-1873). He came to the United States circa 1838 and settled in Cape Girardeau County, Missouri; he was living there in 1850 with an older brother who was a shoemaker and two younger sisters. Circa 1858, James married Eliza A. Mangold, and the couple would have at least three children. He had a photo studio in South Bend Indiana, and he died in Lawrence, Kansas 18 April 1910 and was buried there. If he took Catherine’s photo in Indiana then she had to have been there, or passing through on her way to Kansas perhaps? There is an article that states that in 1902, The Silver City Enterprise newspaper interviewed Sherriff Harvey Whitehill about what he remembered about Billy, and he stated in that article that Billy’s right name was Henry McCarty, and he was born in Anderson, Indiana, however it was suggested that because William Antrim was from there that he assumed Catherine was too, so Whitehill could have been mistaken? I’m not saying the photo is proof of anything, it may very well be a coincidence that the lady in it resembles a photo of Catherine.

====

Those two ladies in the presented photos do look similar.  Photographer James Bonney (1831-1910) resided in Missouri for many years, and then lived with his daughter in Kansas, where he died.  He had a brother named William E. Bonney.  Herman Weisner provided some research that indicated that Catherine McCarty Antrim was the daughter of a James Bonney of Missouri.  Where did you come across that photo?  The location may provide some clues ...

[MissyS]

Thanks Elwood,
I bought the photo on an online auction because I thought it could lend a clue, but there’s really no way to know much more, I’m trying to determine where the first photo of Catherine came from as well because there’s another photo that’s said to be of her that looks to have more lighter colored hair? Iv been trying to find information as to what years James Bonney had his photography business in South Bend Indiana? I wanted to get a time frame of when the photo could have been taken, if it was taken in the 1870’s then I can pretty much rule out that it’s Catherine Antrim. I’m not that good at guessing ages, but I’m guessing the lady in the photo may be close to late 30’s maybe 40? Catherine died in 1845, and she was said to have been 45 when she died. So I was looking at a time frame that could be possible? She has a Mona Lisa smile, but looks kinda sad in the photo

I found some interesting documentary on a James Bonney that pioneered the Santa Fe Trail and helped to settle Mora New Mexico and its questioned if he was Billy The Kid’s Grandfather? and although the documentary is a little long about three pages or so it’s but very informative and Interesting, there’s a reference to this James Bonney in it that believes he abandoned his family in Missouri as well, on pg 10

GO DOWN TO PAGE 10

digitalrepository.unm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1050&context=wagon_tracks

[Elwood]

Dec 8, 2020 22:25:00 GMT -5 MissyS said:

Thanks Elwood,
I bought the photo on an online auction because I thought it could lend a clue, but there’s really no way to know much more, I’m trying to determine where the first photo of Catherine came from as well because there’s another photo that’s said to be of her that looks to have more lighter colored hair? Iv been trying to find information as to what years James Bonney had his photography business in South Bend Indiana? I wanted to get a time frame of when the photo could have been taken, if it was taken in the 1870’s then I can pretty much rule out that it’s Catherine Antrim. I’m not that good at guessing ages, but I’m guessing the lady in the photo may be close to late 30’s maybe 40? Catherine died in 1845, and she was said to have been 45 when she died. So I was looking at a time frame that could be possible? She has a Mona Lisa smile, but looks kinda sad in the photo

I found some interesting documentary on a James Bonney that pioneered the Santa Fe Trail and helped to settle Mora New Mexico and its questioned if he was Billy The Kid’s Grandfather? and although the documentary is a little long about three pages or so it’s but very informative and Interesting, there’s a reference to this James Bonney in it that believes he abandoned his family in Missouri as well, on pg 10

GO DOWN TO PAGE 10

digitalrepository.unm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1050&context=wagon_tracks

Further info about James Bonney (1831-1910) photographer of South Bend, Indiana:

"They (James Bonney and his family) quickly left the south (Missouri) at the outbreak of the (Civil War) war, coming to South Bend, Indiana in 1862.  A photo of his wife on this site indicates it was taken circa 1865.
Carte de visite on albumen paper, circa 1865, Imprint: James Bonney, Photographer, South Bend, Ind. [AJB:19]

[MissyS]

Thanks Elwood,
I appreciate your help. So in 1862 James Bonney arrived and set up shop in South Bend Indiana, Catherine may have lived in Indianapolis, and Indianapolis Indiana is about 131 miles distance between to South Bend, that’s quite a bit of distance for her and two small boys to travel to have gotten her photo taken, I’m not saying she couldn’t have, but it would be more plausible if I could find a reference that she had resided closer, there’s some information I found that a Catherine did have an address in Indianapolis, but it could have been another Catherine?, I can’t find any reference that puts Catherine in or near South Bend Indiana, however she may have passed through on her way from New York, if she came there from New York?, I’m not sure if that’s possible? Iv found a reference that she may have had relatives in Terre Haute, according to a Charles Edward Vandever, an acting Chief of Police at Terre Haute, Indiana in 1881, he said Billy the Kid lived in Terre Haute when he was about 11 or 12 years old, and not with his mother, Billy may have stayed with relatives?, but Terre Haute is quite a bit of distance to South Bend as well, I’m wondering how Charles Vandever knew that info of Billy staying with relatives there? 1860’s would be a fitting time frame for the photo to have been taken but looking at her age in the photo Catherine would have had to have been around 35 years old? the lady may have been close to that age in the photo, I really don’t know? Theres some interesting possibilities added to the link that Iv never read before one of is a possibility that Catherine had worked for a family that was a renowned actor and playwright named Dion Boucicault (also spelled Bourcicault, Boursiquot) and his wife, the actress Agnes Robertson, they moved to Indiana also but after Catherine had left. The link does not claim any as facts only hypothesis, and possibilities, but quite interesting possibilities.

stigostgaard.com/billy-the-kid/

[tboor74]

The James Bonney of the Santa Fe trail link always piqued me, it gives meaning to the choice of name, explains the Salazar link and I'm sure there was a tale somewhere re Billy having a letter of introduction from an aunt (Rebecca possibly).

[MissyS]

Iv been trying to find more information about that James Bonney of the Santa Fe Trail, but not much I can dig up, but while researching the Bonney name in New Mexico I came across some interesting things about another Bonney family, I found an article about a C D Bonney he is said to have not been related to Billy the Kid at all, but interestingly however he was said to have sold Pat Garrett the ammo to shoot Billy with, this ammo was sold to Garrett from the Bonney and Sons Stables & Livery store in Roswell. Garrett was friends with this Bonney family, and even stood as best man at a wedding of a family member. One member of this Bonney family Cecil Bonney wrote a couple books about life in New Mexico, one titled “ LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER: Seventy-Five Years in the Pecos Valley”, 1971, this may be an informative book and also the other one he wrote and may mention in it if there’s a family connection to the James Bonney that pioneered the Santa Fe trail?, his book would undoubtedly mention the friendship with Pat Garrett and selling him the ammo however.

www.rdrnews.com/2017/08/13/looking-back-writers-block-and-the-first-day-of-school/

[tboor74]

Feb 7, 2021 3:25:32 GMT -5 MissyS said:

Iv been trying to find more information about that James Bonney of the Santa Fe Trail, but not much I can dig up, but while researching the Bonney name in New Mexico I came across some interesting things about another Bonney family, I found an article about a C D Bonney he is said to have not been related to Billy the Kid at all, but interestingly however he was said to have sold Pat Garrett the ammo to shoot Billy with, this ammo was sold to Garrett from the Bonney and Sons Stables & Livery store in Roswell. Garrett was friends with this Bonney family, and even stood as best man at a wedding of a family member. One member of this Bonney family Cecil Bonney wrote a couple books about life in New Mexico, one titled “ LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER: Seventy-Five Years in the Pecos Valley”, 1971, this may be an informative book and also the other one he wrote and may mention in it if there’s a family connection to the James Bonney that pioneered the Santa Fe trail?, his book would undoubtedly mention the friendship with Pat Garrett and selling him the ammo however.

www.rdrnews.com/2017/08/13/looking-back-writers-block-and-the-first-day-of-school/

Not sure if you've seen this one, MissyS? Skip down to page 9.

digitalrepository.unm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1050&context=wagon_tracks

[MissyS]

Thanks tboor74, I did read it and it’s very interesting, I posted the wagon tracks link further up.  It states that Historian Herman Weisner concludes that Billy is indeed a Bonney, and he’s the son of a daughter that this James Henry abandoned in Missouri, he seems convinced but his proof of the connection is unclear? It’s interesting to note though that J E Sligh wrote in the Overland Monthly volume 52 that Billy the Kid’s father was a soldier in the regular army and was stationed at Fort Bayard near Silver City New Mexico where he died, and left three children Billy the eldest, he didn’t mention the fathers name that was stationed at Fort Bayard however.

[tboor74]

Ah sorry MissyS, I saved a load of them re James Bonney, that on was a particularly good read. Apols for redirecting you to your own link!  

[MissyS]

No apology necessary tboor74, James Bonney was an interesting character and worth reading again, I found something I looked over the first time reading it that James Bonney created a series of dugouts as shelters, along the Santa Fe trail, could any of those dug outs be one that Billy knew about and used to hide out in? It also mentions that James Bonney probably came to New Mexico with a Brother named “Henry Bonney” that was living in Mora New Mexico, so did his brother have a family?, But back to the C D Bonney In a May 1885 ad that was put in the town paper by Frank Coe offering a reward for a strayed horse shows he was a little acquainted with C D Bonney, the Cattle brands he mentions that was on the horse could be interesting to look up which ranch it was branded from? if they were the Coe’s own Cattle brand or someone else’s?