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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 13, 2013 9:30:20 GMT -5
All legitimate points to consider, no doubt. I've seen them all before and considered them all. Accept the last one. Where did Brushy state he lived with his "half aunt and her mother"? I don't recall ever seeing or hearing about that comment. Also, can you point to where Joseph said he was born in New York? Just curious.
Brushy said his father was James Henry Roberts and his mother was Mary Adeline Dunn. Maybe he made up those names? Maybe not? Maybe he made up a great deal of the information he gave Morrison? Maybe not? Maybe he exaggerated a lot? Maybe not? Maybe he was just a crazy old man looking for notoriety? Maybe not?
In spite of all the questions you point out I still believe the odds are he really was Billy The Kid.
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Post by nmjames on Jul 13, 2013 10:21:53 GMT -5
On page 16 of Morrison's book Alias Billy The Kid he states They went first to Trinidad, Colorado, then to Santa Fe, and finally to Silver City, New Mexico. Young Billy Roberts lived with Mrs. Bonney (later Mrs. Antrim) and her mother until he was twelve years old, and passed as her son.
You can find Joseph Antrim first on the 1880 Census in Silverton, San Juan Colorado. He was 17 states he was born in New York, Father New York, Mother England. His birth date 1863. He was on two more Census but I will have to dig them out. I think 1920 and 1930. Also as I have stated before, William Antrim states in 1915 that Mrs. McCarty had two boys both born in New York. One died in the 80s and the other he had not seen in 14 years.
Wyane it is your right to believe what ever you want. I am looking for facts. Show me where I am wrong with facts not some old man said this so it's true. I have done a lot of research on Brushy and even more on the Lincoln Co. War. I am looking for the truth!
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Post by Simon C on Nov 18, 2015 6:24:36 GMT -5
This is what i once read about, dont know how true it is. Lincoln was known as Las Placitas del Rio Bonito. Leading to Billy's nickname being Billy Bonito or Billy Bonnie
the village by the pretty river.
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Post by Tonyia Hammond on Mar 13, 2016 23:50:42 GMT -5
I know the real truth. It was by painstaking hand comparrison not the writting. No 2 fingerprints are alike and no to hands are alike with very close observation. Brushy Bill Roberts and Billy The Kid are the same person.
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Post by Wayne Land on Mar 14, 2016 11:10:19 GMT -5
Some years ago, on another board, a gentleman who was a professional artist described a somewhat rare hand condition that folks are sometimes born with and insisted he had studied this in art school as part of his training in drawing the human hand. He said Billy and Brushy both had this rare condition. Unfortunately, I did not save that information so I can't give you the name of the condition or the gentleman who posted that information, but it seemed very credible at the time.
So, Tonyia, can you share with us, your expertise in examining the hands or any additional information on specifically what you saw. I'm asking because I agree with your assessment of the hands but others will not without more details.
Thanks so much for sharing. I hope you'll join our board and post often.
Wayne
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Post by mckinley412 on Jun 18, 2016 6:46:07 GMT -5
Here's the second page of the same letter and the envelope in which it was mailed to Ola Everhardt. Notice the signature. Why would he sign the letter William Bonney Billie Kid unless that's who he was? He had no reason to try and deceive Ola. If he was part of a scam put together with her help, why wouldn't he just sign it Ollie, or Brushy? also, When Billy the Kid wrote a letter on March 24th 1879 he signed it Billie. and not Billy. www.indianahistory.org/feature-details/a-billy-the-kid-mystery-solved#.V2UtyTXC1NU
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Post by mckinley412 on Jun 18, 2016 7:38:57 GMT -5
The signature on top is Billie's from the 1879 letter at the Indiana Historical Society. The lower one is Brushy's.
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Post by montanas on Jun 23, 2016 8:07:23 GMT -5
You sure don't have to be a hand writing expert to see they are from the same person
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Post by mckinley412 on Jul 14, 2016 22:02:38 GMT -5
I'm reading Gale Cooper's book Billy the Kid's Writings, words and Wit. It's a 'must have' for your collection. It does a lot of handwriting analysis and she points out that Billy didn't use periods a lot or capitalize words at the beginning of sentences or he would capitalize words that don't need to be capitalized so... all of those traits can be found in the Brushy Bill letter on page one of this thread... umm... he must have studied those letters if he was an impostor, and if so he put way to much time and effort into this scheme for the little bit he got out of it.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 27, 2016 12:06:43 GMT -5
"Brushy said his father was James Henry Roberts and his mother was Mary Adeline Dunn. "
Is that statement found in "Alias Billy the Kid?
Wayne, I will concede that Brushy Bill, in "Alias Billy the Kid", said his father was J. H. Roberts. He also said his father was known as "Wild Henry". I will also concede that Jameson identified Brushy Bill's father as James Henry Roberts. Jameson made many unsupported assumptions, and his books are more historical fiction than documented fact. I will also concede that no one knows what Bean heard on the tapes found in Melissa's trunk.
Just like the rest of Brushy Bill's story, it's nothing more than "what if".
"What if" Garrett did not kill Billy the Kid. "What if" Brushy Bill was Oliver P. Roberts. "What if" Billy Barlow actually existed. "What if" his grandfather, Ben Roberts, actually existed. "What if" his father, J. H. Roberts, actually existed. "What if" his mother, Mary Adeline Dunn, actually existed. "What if" his half brother, James Roberts, actually existed. "What if" his cousin, Ollie Roberts, actually existed.
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Post by mckinley412 on Apr 25, 2017 23:16:33 GMT -5
Also I don't know if it's important or means anything, but the Brushy letter is signed Billie Kid. When Billy was called as a witness to testify in court, they asked him if was called "Billy Kid" and he answered yes. Later he clarified and said he was known as Billy and Kid but not Billy Kid that he knew of. The term "Billy Kid" just seems like what a person close to those actual events and place might be familiar with as opposed to someone who has just read about Billy THE Kid.
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Post by mckinley412 on Aug 12, 2017 10:35:49 GMT -5
Light pics are young Billy and dark ones are Brushy. Brushy handwriting has been described as chicken scrawl but as you can see his writing actually looks smoother than the young Billy's in these samples.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 12, 2017 11:49:27 GMT -5
All I can say is WOW! Thanks for doing that Thain. All these comparisons show some incredible similarities but the capital "R's" on the word "Reservation" are practically identical. Yet they both show the same unusual formation of the letter. I'd love to have a true expert at handwriting comparison take a look at these but I wouldn't know where to begin.
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Post by MissyS on Aug 12, 2017 13:53:16 GMT -5
Awesome that it the handwriting looks so alike, I didn't see the bill of sale by Billy to Dr. Henry Hoyt, so I thought I would post it too for a comparison, looks like the B in branded looks alot like the R
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 11, 2017 15:06:14 GMT -5
Sorry images are not more clear. Everything to left is Billy. To the right is Brushy. Is it a coincidence that the numbers 7 and 8 are written so similar?
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