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Post by MissyS on Jan 19, 2018 0:33:52 GMT -5
Very faint believed to be BONNEY
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Post by nmjames on Jan 21, 2018 21:41:21 GMT -5
Areo,
Andrew L. "Buckshot" Roberts was with the Billy Mathews posse that went to the Tunstall Ranch and even though not with the ones that killed Tunstall may have been in the larger part of the Mathews posse. Widenmann stated that A.L Roberts was with the Mathews posse. I have also read in old newspapers from 1878 that he was in the Sheriff's posse, which had killed McSween's partner, Tunstall. Names listed in the Tunstall Coroner's Report are Jesse Evans, Frank Baker, Thomas Hill, George Hindman. J.J. Dolan, William Morton and others not identified by witnessed that testified before the Coroner's jury. The two books that you can look in are The West of Billy the Kid by Frederick Nolan and The Life & Death of John Henry Tunstall also by Mr. Nolan. In Mr. Nolan's, The West of Billy the Kid on page 117, he states that after Morton, Baker and McCloskey were killed, Andrew L. Roberts exchanged shots with Billy and Bowdre. I also found this in a newspaper from 1931. It is also said that Andrew Roberts worked for Murphy, Dolan and Riley and was a freind of Sheriff Brady. This I also found in old newspapers from 1878. You might also want to look for Deposition of R.A. Widenamann and W.H. Bonney, Angel Report.
nmjames
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jmr
2 - 19 Posts
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Post by jmr on Jan 24, 2018 12:06:31 GMT -5
Aero thank you for sharing this video! Sorry I did not respond sooner. Great work!!
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jmr
2 - 19 Posts
Posts: 4
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Post by jmr on Jan 24, 2018 12:08:23 GMT -5
Supposedly Buckshot was originally suspected as being part of the Tunstall murder posse, I don't have the source at the moment, and there was a warrant for him, and that is the only story I've heard about why they had a warrant for him. Most do not believe he was in the posse now. But that is what the warrant was for. There was a 200 dollar bounty on each Regulator. Brushy says Buckshot was after them and I tend to believe Brushy's story. He may have been after a Regulator but Brushy didn't say that it was the reason he showed up to Blazer's, if I remember right, he only says Buckshot was after them in my opinion and it could be that Blazer's Mill was an accidental encounter. Some stories say he had just sold his property and was coming to pick up mail or a check. This would explain why his mule was so heavily weighed down, not uncommon to own many guns and little else. Or he may have been looking for a fight. I don't believe the Kid counted Buckshot's shots and waited until he was empty to rush him. Buckshot was an experienced warrior. Coe says he never seen anyone fire a Winchester so fast. I believe this because I saw on youtube where a guy fired an old one like it was a machine gun. Modified or not, it is possible. One of the Blazer's, maybe Dr. Blazer said Billy's guns were modified, one pistol had the trigger removed and another had the trigger tied back. Whether Buckshot was firing so fast he couldn't count his own shots wouldn't matter, it would be second nature to him. He wouldn't have let himself run out of bullets in such a crucial life or death situation. His mind would have counted them almost subconsciously. Planning his next move. I believe his gun jammed from firing so quickly. This guy was really tough. If they hadn't shot him through the belly without warning then the Regulator's may have suffered heavier casualties that day. I retraced their steps when I visited the location. Although my investigation was cut very short I found the window that I believe may have been the one he barricaded the mattress with. I guess some say it was the doorway. I wish I had more time there, but oh well. The house was lived in until about the 50's. The family and other experts around there know very little and most of what they know is absolutely incorrect. Most of the items in the house were still somewhat intact but there happened to be a skeleton of a mattress next to the window where I believe him and Brewer exchanged shots. I stood it up next to the window and was lucky to get a decent photo with a pretty bad camera. It is a beautiful shot of the sun beams shining through the springs of the mattress. It says file is too big too post the pic. Wait...did you say there are still items AND an old mattress in there? Wow!!
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Post by mckinley412 on Jan 26, 2018 21:38:21 GMT -5
(Aero, pm me) There were two mills on the opposite side of the highway, different sources place the log pile at different mills. If someone has an understanding about how these saw mills work then you could probably figure out where the log pile was that Brewer was shot at, because the water is running north to south. The window to the left of the left door as you look at it is where I think Buckshot put the mattress and shot Brewer from. I can share photo to your email. The lean-to was built on at the right of photo. It's been said Billy stayed the night in the lean-to or those northern rooms on his way from Messilla to Santa Fe. But Many (locals, family, True West)...now...are saying that the fight happened at the Big House, and I don't believe this. There are still some boards left from the big house I believe. It is next to the hill where Brewer and Buckshot are buried. Everthing I can see, Buckshot's 120 yard shot and everything point to this house being the actual location of the gunfight. It is in Indian Reservation area and you should ask permission to explore. The Blazer family is very cool with tourist but you should leave everything exactly the way you found it.
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Post by MissyS on Jan 27, 2018 3:38:23 GMT -5
Thain, Thanks for posting the photos, it does looks different from the photo in Coe's book, the building in Coe's book was leaning quite a bit, the photo you posted does look more likely the building, Also I believe Emerson Hough was confused? he wrote that he visited the site in 1905 and the building Roberts was in was gone, he said another adobe was built further back from it, but most of the site of the old mill was torn down, the only thing he said was still standing was the old flume that the water ran over onto the wheel. I don't know what building he was referring to that was built later further back? but your photo looks quite old. Also Hough wrote in so many words that Buckshot stated that he wanted no part of the LCW, he was after all wounded, and didn't want to take sides so even though he was friends with Murphy and Dolan he didn't care to participate and persons told him that The Regulators were after him and that he should leave town, and that was probably what he was attempting to do? Im wondering if Coe and the others could have been mistaken about Buckshot as being after them for reward money? Anyway I don't know how correct Emerson Hough is about Buckshot not wanting to participate? nmjames found evidence he was part of the Mathews posse that went to the Tunstall Ranch, so he must have taken sides? It's confusing as to why it all happened for sure
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Post by Aero on Jan 28, 2018 8:53:09 GMT -5
I would indeed travel to that place for sure. How far away from Cruces is the location I think it’s pretty close? I would drone film it but the ocd in me would also have to see it / find those areas and try and use some photo tricks to bring them out as I assume they’re faded really bad now, it would be complete fun to hunt down those carvings!
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Post by Aero on Jan 28, 2018 8:58:31 GMT -5
I didn’t see the thread grew another page ha! I was referring to the mountain where they carved initials, I read that’s outside Cruces
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Post by MissyS on Jan 28, 2018 20:45:39 GMT -5
Aero, I believe it's in Dona Ana County, somewhere 3 to 4 miles West of Fort Selden State Monument, and a little ways North of Radium Springs, It was believed that the gang used the peak as an advantage point to look out to the road close to the Fort to watch the soldiers movements, they could see the soldiers leaving and arriving so they can rustle the cattle and horses in the area, or move them through the area?, a friend that was a rock climber went yrs ago, and said there were alot of snakes around there, so it may be safer to just use a drone? some people that knew the Kid back in the day said he wasn't afraid of anything, and it does seem that he wasn't too afraid of snakes. There was another fight the gang was in I believe it was the one that McNab was shot?, and one of the Coes was held captive and got free?, I don't think I ever seen a picture before of where that happened at, has anyone been to that site before?
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Post by nmjames on Jan 29, 2018 2:39:39 GMT -5
MissyS,
The fight where McNab was shot and Frank Coe was taken captive was east of Lincoln about ten miles near the Fritz Ranch. You can see a picture of the area on page 140 in Mr. Nolan's book, The West of Billy the Kid.I don't know if you know where the Frits cemetery is but the battle was near there.
nmjames
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Post by MissyS on Feb 8, 2018 5:32:32 GMT -5
Thanks, nmjames I didn't know there was a picture of the area where it happened, I guess I over looked it in that book, there truely is alot of photos in that book, It is a great reference for sure.
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