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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 2, 2012 16:22:29 GMT -5
Yes I have. Very interesting ebook. It helps to clear up some confusion regarding exact quotes from Brushy.
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Post by chivato1011 on Oct 6, 2012 16:41:55 GMT -5
After reading this book, It is very clear, that if Brushy was not the Kid, who was he? He knew too much information. He even mentions Rube Burrow. most people today dont even know who Rube was. A very good read. Brushy had the knowledge.
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Post by nmjames on Oct 7, 2012 19:41:08 GMT -5
Chivato1011,
If you want to find out where Brushy got most of his information, look up J. Frank Dalton, Al
Jennings, O'Henry, and start around Ardmore and Lawton, OK. Also if you don't have the book
Alias Billy The Kid, by Morrison and Sonnichsen, it is the best book on Brusy and also the best
book to show you Brushy was not Billy the Kid.
I guess you looked up Rube Burrow and his brother Jim. Brushy stated that he met them in
Oklahoma in 1874 along with Bell Starr. The trouble with this statment is none of them were in
Oklahoma at that time. The real Billy the Kid was in Silver City, NM. and never left between 1873 and 1875. Brushy also stated that he was in Silver City in 1870 and left in 1872. The real Billy was in Wichita in 1870 and part of 1871.
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Post by Darren on Oct 18, 2012 13:41:10 GMT -5
Brushy was absolutely not Billy the Kid. There were several eye witness accounts of his slaying on July 14, 1881, The Kid's close friends confirmed he was dead and even prepared the body for burial.
Brushy made many mistakes in recounting The Kid's life, he also claimed to have rode with a proven Jesse James imposter before falsely claiming to be The Kid. Not to mention they had different eye colors.
Honestly, I don't see how anyone could say something so ridiculous when the facts clearly prove that he was just a liar with no credibility.
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Post by Billy the Kid on Mar 1, 2014 22:48:26 GMT -5
What a crock! Just look at the ears! Billy had an ear lobe that came up at the bottom. Brushy had no ear lobe at all - the ear just goes straight into his head. Brushy and Billy the kid without a doubt are NOT the same person. Sorry to disappoint you all.
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Post by Wayne Land on Mar 8, 2014 11:35:07 GMT -5
The famous BTK tintype is covered with dark spots and distortions. If you're looking at a horizontally flipped version (corrected), his left ear is barely visible but not so much that you can't tell it is likely an attached earlobe like Brushy's. As for the right ear that looks like a detached earlobe, look very carefully at the point where the earlobe touches his head. There's one of those dark spots there. It is clear that it "is" a dark spot, distortion, in the photo because it extends slightly into his neck and creates a very "jagged" shape (unnatural) at that point of the earlobe. So I believe if we could see the original tintype, undistorted, we would see that Billy did indeed have attached earlobes just like Brushy. Furthermore, if you compare the shapes of the inner ears, they are identical.
And Darren, eyewitnesses sometimes lie in order to protect the criminal. Besides the fact that very few of them claim to have "seen" the body before it was placed in it's coffin. The majority of the so called "eyewitnesses" were residents who were awoken by the sound of gunshots, were told Billy had been killed and therefore believed it. You can't just ignore all the evidence that says Garrett shot the wrong man that night.
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Post by Wayne Land on Mar 8, 2014 11:55:35 GMT -5
Oh yes, I forgot to answer Darren's other points.
Eye color:
We don't have any color photo of Billy before 1881. We do have an eyewitness, Severo Gallegos, who saw Billy and Brushy and signed an affidavit that they were the same person. Based on what? Primarily, the eyes. Yes, we have statements from persons who knew Billy that he had "clear blue", "bluishy grey", eyes along with other descriptions. Eye color is often a very difficult thing to describe as eyes can have multiple colors in them that are augmented by the lighting in the room, the clothes and surroundings, an just personal impressions of the viewer.
Rode with Jesse James:
I have searched and searched and I find no record of Brushy ever making the claim that he rode with Jesse James. And by the way, there's no "proof" that J. Frank Dalton was not Jesse. The forensic scientist that examined the remains didn't even make a claim there was "proof". But even if Dalton was a fraud, Brushy never said he "rode with him". He just said he'd known him for 78 years. If you read Brushy's story, you'll see that he claims to have met Jesse James while staying with Belle Starr.
Mistakes:
Brushy's incorrect statements may have been due to failed memory. After all, he was 90 years old at the time. Heck, I'm a young 64 and I couldn't tell you that much detail about my life prior to age 21 without making some mistakes. That doesn't make Brushy a liar. It makes him human, like you and I. That said, I do believe he amplified, enhanced, parts of his story as did many old west characters. Call that lying if you like, but it doesn't mean he wasn't Billy. It's possible he really was Billy and still "made up" parts of the story because he didn't want to reveal the real truth of what happened.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Let me say that I've been studying this for about 15 years now and I've heard all the evidence and opinions against Brushy and it is not "ridiculous" or a "crock" to believe he was Billy. Dig a little deeper into the facts.
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Post by marchus on Mar 24, 2014 9:58:10 GMT -5
Has anyone read Billy the kid, the lost interviews, fairly new book. I was just going to ask this. W.C Jameson truly believes Brushy's story and he says that his new book The Lost Interviews adds even more evidence to Brushy's claim. I haven't read it but would love to. |
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Post by Wayne Land on Mar 24, 2014 15:10:50 GMT -5
"The lost interviews" is suppose to be a word for word transcription of the tapes Morrison made while interviewing Brushy. Morrison's book comes right out and says that they edited some of the stuff for clarity, etc. So this book by Jameson aims to be the completely authentic interviews. They're based on transcriptions done by Frederic Bean who is one of the few people who claim to have actually gained access to the tapes and notebooks from those interviews. There is also a book by Brett Hall that goes into a great deal of detail that you won't read anywhere else. Brett also claims to have worked directly from the actual notebooks and tapes.
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Post by Chris Roberts on Apr 20, 2014 8:30:35 GMT -5
Anyone know how I can contact Brett L. Hall? Author of the Billy the Kid book? I have some photos of my great grandpa Roberts and two of his sons that look eerily family to the famous Billy tin-type, snaggle-teeth and all. Any help would be appreciated. Chrisroberts05@hotmail.com
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Post by Copperman5 on Mar 31, 2021 7:53:02 GMT -5
Tell me these aren't the same person... Not the same person |
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Post by DanJohno on Apr 1, 2021 20:09:17 GMT -5
I'm currently reading W.C Jameson's books. Jamo is a good writer.
I admire anyone for writing about Brushy's claim of being Billy the kid being the truth.
It takes courage to publicly state your belief in Brushy because you're guaranteed to cop a flogging from the Billy the kid hierarchy.
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Post by Elwood on Oct 23, 2021 10:59:16 GMT -5
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Post by Elwood on Oct 23, 2021 11:03:34 GMT -5
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Post by kerry on Oct 25, 2021 10:04:12 GMT -5
Pat Garrett would have encouraged the belief that the gun was BTK's as evidence the man he shot was BTK...the model 1877/78 certainly was recovered that night - only it was never BTK's gun. The double action trigger can just be seen proudly displayed by Dirty Dave in the mid-1880 Vegas line-up that included Pat Garrett himself ...at some time before Stinking Springs - Dave must have flicked the gun to a Fort Sumner sheep herder...who in turn claimed he had swapped the gun to BTK after his escape from Lincoln jail. All 3 lawmen specifically mention the double action revolver -and indepenent witness...Charles Siringo was present when Pat auctioned the gun off with other items recovered as belonging to BTK soon after the shooting.... |
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