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Post by Elwood on May 9, 2022 23:34:44 GMT -5
Thus, in regards to the question of Bridget, if William was correct that his wife and her first husband had only the 2 sons, then Bridget was not her daughter. That does not preclude Bridget from having been the daughter of Patrick, however. If the 1860 census had included relationship status information like the 1880 and following census records do, it may have indicated that Bridget was a daughter to the head of household, but still would have implied no such relationship with Catherine, his present wife. This kind of assumption is common in genealogical research. Even early DAR records erroneously accepted some of these assumptions, which often makes countering those errors difficult, even when a will record exists that proves otherwise. True. He might have had a previous marriage. Jack DeMattos, in the January 1980 issue of “Real West”, made a plausible argument that Billy the Kid was the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine. That assumption was based on 1860 census records, New York City Directories, Church of St Peter baptismal records, and the proximity of 210 Greene Street, the McCarty residence, to the Church of St Peter in Manhattan. The baptismal name of the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine was Patrick. Henry McCarty and Joseph McCarty were witnesses at the marriage of Catherine McCarty and William Antrim. Perhaps the son's full name was Patrick Henry McCarty, and he was called Henry to avoid confusion. Bridget was 7 in the 1860 census. According to William H Carson, Catherine Devine and Patrick McCarty were married 19 June 1851 in New York City. Joseph (McCarty) Antrim was 17 in the 1880 census of San Juan County, CO. He was 57 in the 1920 census of Denver County, CO. He indicated in both records that he was born in New York. In three of the records for Patrick Henry McCarthy; baptismal certificate, 1860 federal census for NYC, and the 1914 New York death certificate, the name is McCarthy, not McCarty; the son of Patrick McCarthy and Catherine Devine. The supposed address they lived at during the 1860 census was not 210 Greene Street; it was Washington Street. That is based on researching the neighbors that are listed above and below the McCarthy family on the census page; as well as the 1861 NYC directory that shows them living at 139 Washington Street. 210 Greene Street was about a mile from the Church of Saint Peter; whereas 139 Washington Street was much closer, as well as being in the correct First Ward of NYC. Greene Street was in the 8th and 15th Wards then. Also, there was a 1860 census listing in that area for another Patrick and Catherine, but it was McCarty with no children listed. Remember that many of the newspaper articles refer to Joseph Antrim as the half-brother of Billy the Kid. Perhaps Billy wasn't born as a McCarty at all, but Joseph was. Its true that they were both listed as McCarty as witnesses at their mother's wedding to Wm Antrim in 1873 in Santa Fe, NM. Once the Kid left Silver City in 1875, many of the records refer to him as Kid Antrim, Henry Antrim, etc. Did you see any Kid McCarty many times?
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Post by Elwood on May 10, 2022 0:15:19 GMT -5
Thus, in regards to the question of Bridget, if William was correct that his wife and her first husband had only the 2 sons, then Bridget was not her daughter. That does not preclude Bridget from having been the daughter of Patrick, however. If the 1860 census had included relationship status information like the 1880 and following census records do, it may have indicated that Bridget was a daughter to the head of household, but still would have implied no such relationship with Catherine, his present wife. This kind of assumption is common in genealogical research. Even early DAR records erroneously accepted some of these assumptions, which often makes countering those errors difficult, even when a will record exists that proves otherwise. True. He might have had a previous marriage. Jack DeMattos, in the January 1980 issue of “Real West”, made a plausible argument that Billy the Kid was the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine. That assumption was based on 1860 census records, New York City Directories, Church of St Peter baptismal records, and the proximity of 210 Greene Street, the McCarty residence, to the Church of St Peter in Manhattan. The baptismal name of the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine was Patrick. Henry McCarty and Joseph McCarty were witnesses at the marriage of Catherine McCarty and William Antrim. Perhaps the son's full name was Patrick Henry McCarty, and he was called Henry to avoid confusion. Bridget was 7 in the 1860 census. According to William H Carson, Catherine Devine and Patrick McCarty were married 19 June 1851 in New York City. Joseph (McCarty) Antrim was 17 in the 1880 census of San Juan County, CO. He was 57 in the 1920 census of Denver County, CO. He indicated in both records that he was born in New York. Who is this Patrick Henry McCarthy, buried in NYC in 1914? www.findagrave.com/memorial/154860839/patrick-henry-mccarthyLooks like he was the son of Patrick McCarthy and Catherine Devine? The bio on the findagrave memorial says that the 1905 New York state census showed that he was born around 1859? Look how close his birth day of Oct 17, 1859 is to the baptismal certificate date of Sep 17, 1859. Could it be that the informant on the 1914 death certificate provided the wrong info? The year was surely off, as proven by the 1905 NY state census. Perhaps the month was off as well; Oct instead of Sep? How many men named "Patrick Henry McCarthy", who were also the son of Patrick McCarthy and Catherine Devine, do you think there were living in New York City during that time period? Is this man actually Billy the Kid, and he survived until 1914? Or is this Patrick Henry McCarthy theory, just that; and he had no connection with Billy the Kid?
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Post by Elwood on May 10, 2022 9:05:18 GMT -5
Thus, in regards to the question of Bridget, if William was correct that his wife and her first husband had only the 2 sons, then Bridget was not her daughter. That does not preclude Bridget from having been the daughter of Patrick, however. If the 1860 census had included relationship status information like the 1880 and following census records do, it may have indicated that Bridget was a daughter to the head of household, but still would have implied no such relationship with Catherine, his present wife. This kind of assumption is common in genealogical research. Even early DAR records erroneously accepted some of these assumptions, which often makes countering those errors difficult, even when a will record exists that proves otherwise. True. He might have had a previous marriage. Jack DeMattos, in the January 1980 issue of “Real West”, made a plausible argument that Billy the Kid was the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine. That assumption was based on 1860 census records, New York City Directories, Church of St Peter baptismal records, and the proximity of 210 Greene Street, the McCarty residence, to the Church of St Peter in Manhattan. The baptismal name of the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine was Patrick. Henry McCarty and Joseph McCarty were witnesses at the marriage of Catherine McCarty and William Antrim. Perhaps the son's full name was Patrick Henry McCarty, and he was called Henry to avoid confusion. Bridget was 7 in the 1860 census. According to William H Carson, Catherine Devine and Patrick McCarty were married 19 June 1851 in New York City. Joseph (McCarty) Antrim was 17 in the 1880 census of San Juan County, CO. He was 57 in the 1920 census of Denver County, CO. He indicated in both records that he was born in New York. There is another person buried next to Patrick Henry McCarthy (died in 1914); same burial plot at Calvary Cemetery in New York City. www.findagrave.com/memorial/165874358/kate-sullivanCatherine “Kate” Sullivan BIRTH 1878 New York, USA DEATH 19 Nov 1902 (aged 23–24) New York County (Manhattan), New York BURIAL Calvary Cemetery Woodside, Queens County, New York PLOT Third Calvary, Section 19, Range 2, Plot E, Grave Note that Kate Sullivan's mother's name was Bridget. Patrick Henry McCarthy supposedly had a sister named Bridget, according to the 1860 federal census in NYC; or at least someone in his household was named Bridget. familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WXX-R58Kate Sullivan New York, New York City Municipal Deaths Name Kate Sullivan Event Type Death Event Date 19 Nov 1902 Event Place Manhattan, New York, New York, United States Address 64 Leroy St. Gender Female Age 24 Marital Status Married Race White Occupation Housewife Birth Year (Estimated) 1878 Birthplace New York Burial Date 21 Nov 1902 Cemetery Calvary Father's Name Terance Father's Birthplace New York Mother's Name Bridget Mother's Birthplace New York Compare the burial plot of Patrick Henry McCarthy to that of Catherine "Kate" Sullivan www.findagrave.com/memorial/154860839/patrick-henry-mccarthy
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Post by MissyS on Sept 23, 2022 0:07:13 GMT -5
I found an interesting mention in the Telegraph Courier March.28, 1895 of Kenosha Wisconsin about a Mrs Matt Stahl or Bridget Terry that died in March 1895, Bridget Terry according to this article was born near Chicago on Feb 17, 1840, and her parents were Patrick and Catherine McCarty-Terry, her father died when she was three years old and her mother left her an orphan at the age of fifteen, she was one of six children, she married Matt Stahl Jan. 13, 1861 and had ten kids. I don’t know if this could be the same Bridget? Catherine Antrim’s tombstone says she was born in 1829 that would make Catherine only eleven years old when this Bridget was born, so if this is the same Bridget in question then she is more likely related to a different McCarty family? or the wrong Bridget all together? The name Terry may be her mother Catherine’s maiden name? Article on bottom right of page chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/data/batches/whi_engledinger_ver02/data/sn85040310/00514152135/1895032801/0304.pdf
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Post by antonio on Sept 28, 2022 13:47:56 GMT -5
Found this pic online. He looks a bit like a young billy. Could this be sister and aunt? Or mother?
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Post by MissyS on Dec 8, 2023 0:17:27 GMT -5
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Post by thumbuster on Dec 8, 2023 0:55:02 GMT -5
Did Billy have a sister named Bridget McCarty born in 1853? If so, what happened to her and has anyone ever traced what happened to her? Most everything written is about the two sons. I used to own our old McCarty family Bible that was once my great grandfathers. He was born in 1890 and he had memorized lots of his Bible! Another member of my family got hold of that old Bible and he says that he has lost it!!!! I remember flipping thru that old Bible. It was full of our family's history, birthdays, marriages, deaths, etc... I probably, or might have contained Billy the Kid's real birthday! I cannot put my hands on that antique family Bible now and I drives me crazy!
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Post by cassandra jane on Dec 8, 2023 16:06:44 GMT -5
Did Billy have a sister named Bridget McCarty born in 1853? If so, what happened to her and has anyone ever traced what happened to her? Most everything written is about the two sons. I used to own our old McCarty family Bible that was once my great grandfathers. He was born in 1890 and he had memorized lots of his Bible! Another member of my family got hold of that old Bible and he says that he has lost it!!!! I remember flipping thru that old Bible. It was full of our family's history, birthdays, marriages, deaths, etc... I probably, or might have contained Billy the Kid's real birthday! I cannot put my hands on that antique family Bible now and I drives me crazy! Your family member needs a bonk on the head.
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