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Post by susan on Oct 16, 2017 9:14:15 GMT -5
Did Billy have a sister named Bridget McCarty born in 1853? If so, what happened to her and has anyone ever traced what happened to her? Most everything written is about the two sons.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 16, 2017 11:29:05 GMT -5
Good questions, Susan. There are uncertainties. If the birth name of Billy the Kid was Henry McCarty (that assumption is supported by the marriage record of William Antrim and Catherine McCarty which Henry witnessed), and if the McCarthy (sic) family in the 1860 NY census of New York City (Patrick, Cath'n, Bridget, and Henry) includes the two individuals present at the wedding in Santa Fe 1 March 1873, then the answer to the question is yes, Billy the Kid had an older sister named Bridget. The answer to your second question, "What happened to Bridget?", is that no one knows, or has ever located Bridget McCarthy (sic) after the 1860 census. She either died, married, or has not yet been identified in any record after the 1860 census. William Antrim, in his pension application, had the opportunity to reveal the existence of a daughter of Catherine. William only said that Catherine had previously been married to McCarty who died in New York City, had two sons, one that died in the 1880s, and one that he had not heard from in 14 years.
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Post by mckinley412 on Oct 16, 2017 18:18:17 GMT -5
There are a couple stories that his sister visited his grave, etc.
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Post by Phil on Feb 22, 2019 15:31:22 GMT -5
Good questions, Susan. There are uncertainties. If the birth name of Billy the Kid was Henry McCarty (that assumption is supported by the marriage record of William Antrim and Catherine McCarty which Henry witnessed), and if the McCarthy (sic) family in the 1860 NY census of New York City (Patrick, Cath'n, Bridget, and Henry) includes the two individuals present at the wedding in Santa Fe 1 March 1873, then the answer to the question is yes, Billy the Kid had an older sister named Bridget. The answer to your second question, "What happened to Bridget?", is that no one knows, or has ever located Bridget McCarthy (sic) after the 1860 census. She either died, married, or has not yet been identified in any record after the 1860 census. William Antrim, in his pension application, had the opportunity to reveal the existence of a daughter of Catherine. William only said that Catherine had previously been married to McCarty who died in New York City, had two sons, one that died in the 1880s, and one that he had not heard from in 14 years. |
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Post by Phil McKenna on Feb 22, 2019 15:35:02 GMT -5
I just want see what proof u got say Billy the kid had sister.why it came light now.and is it step father daughter if so that no blood line. Just lot people over years has said there long lost families of the Billy the kid
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Post by don williams on Jan 1, 2022 22:51:26 GMT -5
this is the first time that i heard that billy had a sister
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Post by Memo on Apr 24, 2022 10:26:18 GMT -5
Bridget could have been his aunt, cousin or even someone that was domestic help. They used the name of the man of the house on census records.
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GenealogyHistoryLover
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Post by GenealogyHistoryLover on May 5, 2022 12:27:00 GMT -5
Bridget could have been his aunt, cousin or even someone that was domestic help. They used the name of the man of the house on census records. Yes, she could have been any relationship since the 1860 census does not specify the relationships of the household members. While the head of household was often a man, it would not be accurate to say that they "use the name of the man of the house on census records." Typically, household members are shown with their own surnames, whether they might be the married daughter of the head of household or a servant working in the home. To know which is which, the researcher must explore other records beyond the census. Early (1850 - 1870) census records can provide some clues to relationships whereas later (post 1880) census records do indicate the relationship of the household members. One clue that may be suggestive that she is *at least* the daughter of Patrick (no guarantee that she is also the daughter of "Cath" as she's shown) is that she is listed prior to Henry. If she was a cousin, for instance, the typical order would be Patrick, Cath, Henry, then Bridget. Bridget is shown as born in NY, so looking for baptismal records for her would be a start. An additional clue *might* be the marriage date of Patrick and his wife/wives which would also require research. Another clue that is found here is the 6-year spread between the birth of Bridget and Henry. Often, this can be a clue to a death of a previous spouse and a remarriage to Catherine. Alternatively, Bridget could be an earlier daughter of Catherine, who then took her stepfather's surname. Further explorations might investigate whether there were additional children born to Patrick and Catherine between the births of Bridget and Henry, children who might have died at birth or at a young age. Again, referencing baptism records may clarify. |
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Post by Elwood on May 6, 2022 8:33:24 GMT -5
Bridget could have been his aunt, cousin or even someone that was domestic help. They used the name of the man of the house on census records. Yes, she could have been any relationship since the 1860 census does not specify the relationships of the household members. While the head of household was often a man, it would not be accurate to say that they "use the name of the man of the house on census records." Typically, household members are shown with their own surnames, whether they might be the married daughter of the head of household or a servant working in the home. To know which is which, the researcher must explore other records beyond the census. Early (1850 - 1870) census records can provide some clues to relationships whereas later (post 1880) census records do indicate the relationship of the household members. One clue that may be suggestive that she is *at least* the daughter of Patrick (no guarantee that she is also the daughter of "Cath" as she's shown) is that she is listed prior to Henry. If she was a cousin, for instance, the typical order would be Patrick, Cath, Henry, then Bridget. Bridget is shown as born in NY, so looking for baptismal records for her would be a start. An additional clue *might* be the marriage date of Patrick and his wife/wives which would also require research. Another clue that is found here is the 6-year spread between the birth of Bridget and Henry. Often, this can be a clue to a death of a previous spouse and a remarriage to Catherine. Alternatively, Bridget could be an earlier daughter of Catherine, who then took her stepfather's surname. Further explorations might investigate whether there were additional children born to Patrick and Catherine between the births of Bridget and Henry, children who might have died at birth or at a young age. Again, referencing baptism records may clarify. REPLY: Have you considered comparing the 1855 New York state census to the 1860 federal census, for the Patrick, Catherine, Bridget and Henry McCarthy family? Some dates are different, but it seems to be for the same family; especially since they are living in the 1st ward of Manhattan during those years. Something to think about. |
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Post by GenealogyHistoryLover on May 8, 2022 23:18:46 GMT -5
Have you considered comparing the 1855 New York state census to the 1860 federal census, for the Patrick, Catherine, Bridget and Henry McCarthy family? Some dates are different, but it seems to be for the same family; especially since they are living in the 1st ward of Manhattan during those years. Something to think about. I did look into that but need to spend more time on it. The dates seen for the individuals you mention aren't a little bit off but a LOT off. Of course, there wouldn't be a Henry because he wasn't yet born in 1855, but the Patrick/Catherine/Bridget options aren't close enough to suggest even close to certainty that they're the right people. I found other Bridget families but this would have to be an in depth study because we don't yet know if: She belongs to Patrick She belongs to Catherine She belongs to a different family I have 16+years experience with genetic genealogy (work professionally in the field) with experience in sorting out distant relationships via DNA. I wonder if there might be immigration or citizenship records that might point backward to the ancestors of the parents of Henry, tracking back downward to living descendants abroad who might submit to DNA testing to see if we might pick up living descendants today here in the USA. If Bridget had a family, that family might be found through DNA testing, but you'd have to have solid reference people to use as a comparison. A lot is being done today with artifact testing - - - if there was an item of Henry's containing his DNA without it having been contaminated by many people handlng it (slim chance all around!), that could help a lot. We know that Bridget is stated as having been born in NY . . . But that doesn't tell us where. The 1855 NY State Census might provide that info if we knew which Bridget was her (I've observed some 1855 NYS census records that state the county of birth in NY). A location could lead to a baptismal record naming her parents. |
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Post by GenealogyHistoryLover on May 8, 2022 23:38:12 GMT -5
Here's an example of a family that could point to a complicated relationship that could lead to "a" Bridget landing in the Patrick McCarty family. I am, in NO WAY, suggesting this is the Bridget we seek!
1855 NYS Census: Cayuga County
Name: Bridgett Radigan
Birth Year: abt 1853
Age: 2
Gender: Female
Relation to Head: Niece
Residence: Auburn, Ward 2, Cayuga, New York, USA
Household Members Age Relationship
Patrick McCarty
24 Head
Rose McCarty
27 Wife
Catharine McCarty
0 Wife
Charles Radigan
39 Brother
Bridgett Radigan 2 Niece
In this family group, there is a 24 year old Patrick McCarty with a wife, Rose. There is a baby, Catharine, who is erroneously named as a wife. She would likely be the child of Patrick and Rose. Also in the household is a Charles Radigan who is a "brother" to the head of household (step brother? half brother? brother in law?) who has a child of the right age named Bridgett.
It is entirely possible for a niece to later show up in the family with the name of the head of household should that child have been left with the family, had the "brother" died and that child be raised by the head of household, had their been a remarriage later to a wife named Catherine OR if "Rose" was Catherine's name.
Yes, there are a ton of "ifs" here. But, there are also a lot of assumptions made by census records regarding the relationships of the people in the household in those pre-1880 census records. My own paternal grandmother is never found in a census record with her own maiden name - born after 1910, with a stepfather's name in 1920, a different stepfather's name in 1925, missing in 1930 (they lived in a "b" house that wasn't enumerated), and married in 1931, married name in 1940, second husband's surname in 1950 and forward. These names and relationships wander over 3 different states - two adjacent and one in an entirely different part of the country. If the McCarty family could move from NY to the Southwest, we cannot assume that they are also in the same ward, even in the 1850s and 1860s. A lot of migration was taking place in this period.
My point is . . . it's entirely possible for there to be complicated family groups. I'm not saying that Bridgett Radigan is Bridget McCarthy/McCarty - - - Only that we cannot assume that she belongs to the family in the way that we want to believe that she does. We need more data.
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Post by texas truth teller on May 9, 2022 10:55:18 GMT -5
Here's an example of a family that could point to a complicated relationship that could lead to "a" Bridget landing in the Patrick McCarty family. I am, in NO WAY, suggesting this is the Bridget we seek! 1855 NYS Census: Cayuga County Name: Bridgett Radigan Birth Year: abt 1853 Age: 2 Gender: Female Relation to Head: Niece Residence: Auburn, Ward 2, Cayuga, New York, USA Household Members Age Relationship Patrick McCarty 24 Head Rose McCarty 27 Wife Catharine McCarty 0 Wife Charles Radigan 39 Brother Bridgett Radigan 2 Niece In this family group, there is a 24 year old Patrick McCarty with a wife, Rose. There is a baby, Catharine, who is erroneously named as a wife. She would likely be the child of Patrick and Rose. Also in the household is a Charles Radigan who is a "brother" to the head of household (step brother? half brother? brother in law?) who has a child of the right age named Bridgett. It is entirely possible for a niece to later show up in the family with the name of the head of household should that child have been left with the family, had the "brother" died and that child be raised by the head of household, had their been a remarriage later to a wife named Catherine OR if "Rose" was Catherine's name. Yes, there are a ton of "ifs" here. But, there are also a lot of assumptions made by census records regarding the relationships of the people in the household in those pre-1880 census records. My own paternal grandmother is never found in a census record with her own maiden name - born after 1910, with a stepfather's name in 1920, a different stepfather's name in 1925, missing in 1930 (they lived in a "b" house that wasn't enumerated), and married in 1931, married name in 1940, second husband's surname in 1950 and forward. These names and relationships wander over 3 different states - two adjacent and one in an entirely different part of the country. If the McCarty family could move from NY to the Southwest, we cannot assume that they are also in the same ward, even in the 1850s and 1860s. A lot of migration was taking place in this period. My point is . . . it's entirely possible for there to be complicated family groups. I'm not saying that Bridgett Radigan is Bridget McCarthy/McCarty - - - Only that we cannot assume that she belongs to the family in the way that we want to believe that she does. We need more data. The search for Billy the Kid’s early life begins based on best available documentation. He was a participant in the Lincoln County war; tried and convicted as “William Bonny, Kid, William Antrim” for the murder of William Brady. William Bonny and Charles Bowdre are listed on the same census page in the 1880 census of San Miguel County, NM. Henry and Joseph McCarty were witnesses at the marriage of Catherine McCarty and William H Antrim in Santa Fe, NM, 1 March 1873. William Antrim responded to a 1915 request for information from the Bureau of Pensions. William stated that his wife had died of tuberculosis in Silver City; that they had no children; that her 1st husband was McCarty who died in New York City; and that she had 2 sons - one had died in the eighties, and William had not heard from the other in 14 years. Coroners Jury Report of the death of William Bonney, alias Kid, dated 15 July 1881, signed by Alejandro Segura, Justice of the Peace, San Miguel Precinct 27. NY birth seems likely but unproven. More credible information is needed. |
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Post by GenealogyHistoryLover on May 9, 2022 14:20:16 GMT -5
William Antrim responded to a 1915 request for information from the Bureau of Pensions. William stated that his wife had died of tuberculosis in Silver City; that they had no children; that her 1st husband was McCarty who died in New York City; and that she had 2 sons - one had died in the eighties, and William had not heard from the other in 14 years. . . . . . NY birth seems likely but unproven. More credible information is needed. Thus, in regards to the question of Bridget, if William was correct that his wife and her first husband had only the 2 sons, then Bridget was not her daughter. That does not preclude Bridget from having been the daughter of Patrick, however. If the 1860 census had included relationship status information like the 1880 and following census records do, it may have indicated that Bridget was a daughter to the head of household, but still would have implied no such relationship with Catherine, his present wife. This kind of assumption is common in genealogical research. Even early DAR records erroneously accepted some of these assumptions, which often makes countering those errors difficult, even when a will record exists that proves otherwise. |
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Post by MissyS on May 9, 2022 16:35:11 GMT -5
Here's an example of a family that could point to a complicated relationship that could lead to "a" Bridget landing in the Patrick McCarty family. I am, in NO WAY, suggesting this is the Bridget we seek! 1855 NYS Census: Cayuga County Name: Bridgett Radigan Birth Year: abt 1853 Age: 2 Gender: Female Relation to Head: Niece Residence: Auburn, Ward 2, Cayuga, New York, USA Household Members Age Relationship Patrick McCarty 24 Head Rose McCarty 27 Wife Catharine McCarty 0 Wife Charles Radigan 39 Brother Bridgett Radigan 2 Niece In this family group, there is a 24 year old Patrick McCarty with a wife, Rose. There is a baby, Catharine, who is erroneously named as a wife. She would likely be the child of Patrick and Rose. Also in the household is a Charles Radigan who is a "brother" to the head of household (step brother? half brother? brother in law?) who has a child of the right age named Bridgett. It is entirely possible for a niece to later show up in the family with the name of the head of household should that child have been left with the family, had the "brother" died and that child be raised by the head of household, had their been a remarriage later to a wife named Catherine OR if "Rose" was Catherine's name. Yes, there are a ton of "ifs" here. But, there are also a lot of assumptions made by census records regarding the relationships of the people in the household in those pre-1880 census records. My own paternal grandmother is never found in a census record with her own maiden name - born after 1910, with a stepfather's name in 1920, a different stepfather's name in 1925, missing in 1930 (they lived in a "b" house that wasn't enumerated), and married in 1931, married name in 1940, second husband's surname in 1950 and forward. These names and relationships wander over 3 different states - two adjacent and one in an entirely different part of the country. If the McCarty family could move from NY to the Southwest, we cannot assume that they are also in the same ward, even in the 1850s and 1860s. A lot of migration was taking place in this period. My point is . . . it's entirely possible for there to be complicated family groups. I'm not saying that Bridgett Radigan is Bridget McCarthy/McCarty - - - Only that we cannot assume that she belongs to the family in the way that we want to believe that she does. We need more data. The search for Billy the Kid’s early life begins based on best available documentation. He was a participant in the Lincoln County war; tried and convicted as “William Bonny, Kid, William Antrim” for the murder of William Brady. William Bonny and Charles Bowdre are listed on the same census page in the 1880 census of San Miguel County, NM. Henry and Joseph McCarty were witnesses at the marriage of Catherine McCarty and William H Antrim in Santa Fe, NM, 1 March 1873. William Antrim responded to a 1915 request for information from the Bureau of Pensions. William stated that his wife had died of tuberculosis in Silver City; that they had no children; that her 1st husband was McCarty who died in New York City; and that she had 2 sons - one had died in the eighties, and William had not heard from the other in 14 years. Coroners Jury Report of the death of William Bonney, alias Kid, dated 15 July 1881, signed by Alejandro Segura, Justice of the Peace, San Miguel Precinct 27. NY birth seems likely but unproven. More credible information is needed. The Henry and Joseph that were witnesses to the Antrim marriage in Santa Fe in 1873 may possibly be two different persons? That theory was In a True West article, I don’t know if a subscription is needed to view that article or not? There was much research done and it was an interesting article. The “Josie” name listed as witness on the Antrim marriage may not have been young Joseph but could be a woman instead named Josephine McCarty, born Fagan from Richmond Virginia who married a lawyer named Robert McCarty in Lewis County New York, and she could in some way have possibly been kin to Catherine, or a friend she knew, this woman was quite an interesting character indeed, she was arrested of being a Confederate spy, and other things I wont divulge, she had a seventeen day trial for a murder of shooting someone, and she had several children. The Henry McCarty listed on as witness may be another adult Henry McCarty as well, one suggested that lived in 1850 in Rome NY, Oneida County, he was a 25 yr old gardener, and at one time was living next door to Harvey Edmonds who could have been the other possible witness on the marriage of the Antrim’s? It was found in an 1860 census a lawyer named Henry McCarty working in Colorado with a mining engineer named Thomas Richardson Jr. who was a nephew of Harvey Edmonds, Thomas Richardson Jr. was living in Santa Fe at the time of the Antrim wedding and Harvey Edmonds may have been in Santa Fe visiting him at the time he witnessed the Antrim marriage. These persons have ties to Utica Oneida County, and the theory is that Billy the Kid may have been born or lived in Utica due to the possible witnesses origins on the Antrim marriage? There was a suggested Catherine listed in an 1860 census, she was a 30 yr old domestic servant in Utica for a wealthy John Munn family in his Rutger Park Mansion and interestingly eight houses from the Munn mansion was brothers John J. Bonney and a Edward Finch Bonney. As to Bridget, it is just my guess that if it was Josephine Fagan McCarty that witnessed the Antrim marriage then Bridget may have been one of “Josie” or Josephine’s children and perhaps Catherine was in charge of her while Josephine was standing trial or in jail. Josephine was acquitted of her murder trial so Bridget may have went back to live with her, however there’s no proof that anyone else but young Joseph and Henry witnessed the marriage and no proof Josephine was related to Catherine, or even involved with the witnessing of that marriage, or Billy the Kid being from Utica, it’s all theories, but brings up questions, I wonder if “Josie” was just a cute nickname for Joseph then why not the name “Joe” have been used instead? Would nicknames have even been accepted and used on a marriage record back then?, and was young Joseph and Henry really too young to have been witnesses? Because there were many McCarty’s listed back then, nothing is assured.  |
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Post by texas truth teller on May 9, 2022 16:49:48 GMT -5
William Antrim responded to a 1915 request for information from the Bureau of Pensions. William stated that his wife had died of tuberculosis in Silver City; that they had no children; that her 1st husband was McCarty who died in New York City; and that she had 2 sons - one had died in the eighties, and William had not heard from the other in 14 years. . . . . . NY birth seems likely but unproven. More credible information is needed. Thus, in regards to the question of Bridget, if William was correct that his wife and her first husband had only the 2 sons, then Bridget was not her daughter. That does not preclude Bridget from having been the daughter of Patrick, however. If the 1860 census had included relationship status information like the 1880 and following census records do, it may have indicated that Bridget was a daughter to the head of household, but still would have implied no such relationship with Catherine, his present wife. This kind of assumption is common in genealogical research. Even early DAR records erroneously accepted some of these assumptions, which often makes countering those errors difficult, even when a will record exists that proves otherwise. True. He might have had a previous marriage. Jack DeMattos, in the January 1980 issue of “Real West”, made a plausible argument that Billy the Kid was the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine. That assumption was based on 1860 census records, New York City Directories, Church of St Peter baptismal records, and the proximity of 210 Greene Street, the McCarty residence, to the Church of St Peter in Manhattan. The baptismal name of the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine was Patrick. Henry McCarty and Joseph McCarty were witnesses at the marriage of Catherine McCarty and William Antrim. Perhaps the son's full name was Patrick Henry McCarty, and he was called Henry to avoid confusion. Bridget was 7 in the 1860 census. According to William H Carson, Catherine Devine and Patrick McCarty were married 19 June 1851 in New York City. Joseph (McCarty) Antrim was 17 in the 1880 census of San Juan County, CO. He was 57 in the 1920 census of Denver County, CO. He indicated in both records that he was born in New York. |
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