Pete Maxwell.

[clydec]

I am presently reading WC Jameson's book "Pat Garrett, the man behind the badge" and in it Jameson relates a story he heard about Pete Maxwell telling a rancher friend of his what really happened that night in Fort Sumner.  "Many years later, Pete Maxwell became acquainted with Roswell-area rancher Bud Avants. Maxwell told Avants that he wanted to tell him something but made him promise not to repeat it as long as he, Maxwell, was alive. Maxwell told Avants, “You can put it in the Bible if you want to, because it’s the truth.” Maxwell told Avants that Pat Garrett did not kill Billy the Kid. He explained that there was little light in the bedroom and that he and Garrett were in the dark when the intruder stepped through the
 door. Maxwell said the newcomer sensed someone else was in the room and asked, “Quien es?” In stark contrast to Garrett’s version of what happened, Maxwell said the sheriff simply raised his revolver and fired, killing the man with a shot through the chest. Later, when a match was struck and the body examined, they “saw that it was not the Kid.” Maxwell went on to say that Garrett was “pretty well shook up, as he didn’t want it said that he had killed the wrong man.” The man who was killed, said Maxwell, was a Mexican. Maxwell agreed to keep quiet about the mistake.
"

[Wayne Land]

Now that is interesting. However, did Jameson say who told him the story and who the rancher friend was? Otherwise this is hearsay about some hearsay.

[clydec]

He did not say who told him Wayne, but he did mention the ranchers name as Bud Avants.

[MissyS]

I wanted to add that I found another reference to this topic by the same author, in Jameson's latest book "Investigating Histories Mysteries", he wrote that the man's name was Bundy Avants that met Pete Maxwell years after the shooting in Fort Sumner. The article he said was titled “The Bundy Avants Story” published in 1978. The article Pete told Avants that Billy the Kid was not shot and killed by Garrett, and it was a Mexican that was killed and Pete promised Garrett to keep the secret, some the same as in his other book "Pat Garrett, the man behind the badge" but in this reference Pete also told Avants that John Poe was not present. There was no reference in the book as to what publication or where the article was published only the title of the article.

[wannabe12]

Bundy Avant was born in April 6 1894 in Big Spring, tx according to his WW1 draft registration card and the same day in 1895 according to his social security application. So my question is, if he was 3 or 4 whichever date is accurate how and when did he have a conversation with Pete Maxwell about a Mexican being killed instead of Billy?? Pete died in 1898. This seems like another story that has been told to Avant by someone who may or may not have been there or someone heard it from someone who heard it from someone. Most of the stories that try to put doubt on the kid’s death are this way, no direct conversation with anyone who was there. If there has been direct contact with people who were there that night they say it was Billy that died, not someone else. Please don’t give me the “they wanted to protect Billy” speech cause not everyone was a friend to Billy in Sumner that night.

[Wayne Land]

I won't give you that speech but can we at least recognize that only 3 people were in the room and 2 more just outside when the fellow was shot, Billy or not, and if the 4 that lived all agreed on a cover up then it would have been possible to make it happen without convincing "everyone in Ft. Sumner" to participate in hiding the truth. You only needed the cooperation of the folks who witnessed the shooting first hand. We don't even know for sure that Deluvina saw the body. I believe she stated in one interview later in her life that she had actually not seen the body. Jesus Silva certainly would have been on the "let's protect Billy" team. Now yes, there are statements from others in town that said "Billy was killed that night" more or less, but how many others actually said they "saw" the dead body and identified it as William H. Bonney? If there was anyone else I've never seen it.

[wannabe12]

Wayne, I believe Delvina said later she was not the first to see the body. That Pete was the first to go back in the bedroom with a candle, but that she saw the body and it was Billy who was killed. I'm assuming that Ft. Sumner was not a big place in 1881, so it would take very little time for the news to get around that Billy was not in his own coffin, whether the 4 survivors were the only ones to agree on a cover-up or not. I will say it's hard to tell who did and didn't see the body because of all the misinformation that has been passed off as proof, by both sides of the argument. My whole point about Bundy Avant is that it is not possible for him to have talked with Pete Maxwell at anytime about Billy being killed or not. These stories add to the confusion about what actually happened that night. Every story claiming Billy lived needs to be scrutinized just as the word of Pat Garrett and his deputies has. A little fact checking instead of just publishing stories that have no chance of being true just to further ones agenda would be helpful in the overall search for the truth.

[MissyS]

There may have been residents in Fort Sumner that didn't like Billy much and wouldn't have covered up to help him, but what if those persons that were not his pals were afraid to say the truth for fear of retaliation from Billy, or Billy's pals or Garrett who could have warned them not to say specific things to the press or anyone who asks? I'm not saying it's true or not, but if Pete Maxwell did tell Bundy or Bud Avants that he had agreed to keep Garrett's secret, then others may have also? I'm just wondering about the possibility that maybe some people thought it better to say nothing or go along with Garrett or Billy's pals then to suffer the consequence of a possible retaliation from the law or the fastest gun that they knew, or the pals of him?

[wannabe12]

My original post has zero to do with Billy living on or being killed in 1881. It's the fact Bundy or Bud Avant could not have talked to Maxwell. He was 3 or 4 years old when Maxwell died in 1898. These stories are a big part of the problem in finding the truth about Billy. Facts need to be checked before they are passed off as proof just because it supports Brushy's story.

[MissyS]

I believe I have found the source of that publication, it looks like what I could dig up it's the True West Magazine, June 1978 in that Magazine is the "Bundy Avants Story", I would like to find this magazine and read what it actually says, maybe someone has the magazine or knows a source to locate it? I'm puzzled why Jameson would write that his name was Bud in one book and then later write the name was Bundy, just wondering if it was two different men?

[MissyS]

I found the magazine, and read the article, it's entitled "The Bundy Avant Story as told to Arthur Clements" In the article it's Avant not Avants with an (S), and Bundy not Bud, I'm sure it has to be the same man. The article was long, it was an enjoyable story of his life settling in Roswell New Mexico in 1894 with his family him being one yr. old at that time. In so many words, and I will try and sum it up, he told of his boyhood, becoming aquainted with the Coe's and their families, and he tells of his adventures herding cattle, and ranching and living in the territory and further along Avant tells about meeting a man when he was around 20 yrs old that told him that he was Pete Maxwell, Avant said he looked to be 75 yrs old, and he told him that it wasn't Billy the Kid that was killed but a Mexican drifter, and that Billy was still alive and that he could take him to where he lives and that he had a family. Maybe the man he met lied about who he was?, but Wannabe12 is right about the age and time of death. Pete Maxwell's death in 1898 makes it impossible for that to have happened. Avant went on to say a few years later he met up with John W Poe at his bank in Roswell, this part could have happened perhaps? Poe tells him an interesting story of hearing that Billy The Kid was killed he used up two horses and rode all night to get to Fort Sumner to pay his respects as he, Billy and Garrett were friends, and when he arrived Garrett refused to let him view the Kid's body, he persisted and Garrett still refused without a reason, Poe told Avant that he felt Garrett had a reason that he wouldn't or couldn't tell. Poe didn't say he believed it wasn't Billy that was dead, but Avant said he had doubts, he said Poe told him that he took off his badge and handed it to Garrett, and hated him ever since. I don't know how true it is? It would mean that Poe wasn't present when it happened? However I want to add that it's a kinda coincidence that in the book "They Knew Billy the Kid" that theres an interview by a Mr. Poe, I believe it was John Poe's cousin that mentioned in that interview that no one was allowed to view the body except the Maxwell family, Garrett, Mckinney, John Poe, and a woman that supposedly was Billy's Mother? I will be looking for the continuation to the Bundy Avant Story as it is in two parts, part two is supposed to be in the next issue that was printed July,1978. I enjoyed reading part one. I also thought it kinda interesting that Avant mentioned he had a little white pony as a boy given to him by a man named J.P. White Sr. and it's name was "Billy Barlow"

[leeb]

Did the article mention where Poe had travelled from overnight?

[MissyS]

No Leeb, it didn't, only that he heard the Kid was killed in Fort Sumner and he rode out to get there. I wonder too where he could have been before he got there?, or how he got the news that quick?

[leeb]

Jan 8, 2019 14:02:45 GMT -5 MissyS said:

No Leeb, it didn't, only that he heard the Kid was killed in Fort Sumner and he rode out to get there. I wonder too where he could have been before he got there?, or how he got the news that quick?

The furthest anyone could have been to be able to receive the news and ride back to Sumner would have been a seven hour ride away. Perhaps that could narrow down where he could have travelled from. 

[MissyS]

Leeb,
John W Poe did have a banking business in Roswell, so it could have been possible that Bundy Avant spoke with him at his bank?, but I kinda believe it was Poe's cousin that told him the story of riding there and not being able to view the body etc. I'm not sure of this, but a cousin of his did an interview during the writers project and made a similar comment about persons not being able to view the body, he was identified in that interview as "Mr. Poe" (oddly no first name) a cousin of John W. Poe. I believe it's possible Avant met the cousin of John W. Poe at his bank and he introduced himself as Mr. Poe and told him the information, Avant may have believed he was speaking to John W. Poe, this is just a guess? I found out John W Poe's wife was an author of a book entitled "Buckboard Days" published in 1936. This is a story of her life with Poe and living in New Mexico, I'm wondering if theres any information in it of interest about that night? I wonder if Poe himself sent his cousin Mr. Poe a telegram about the news?, but thats just a guess too.