Interesting pic I found online.

[clydec]

This picture is of a young cowboy taken around 1875.  Not saying it's the kid, but there definitely is a resemblance.  He even has the pinky ring.  If it is the kid, he would have been around 15 or 16 years old.  What do you guys think of this one?

[MissyS]

I like this photo, he has the raised eyebrow, the physique and the attitude. The background looks kinda familiar like Iv seen like it before in other old photos of New Mexico. I can't remember where I seen it or what photo or photos? But I will go through some Billy books and look at photo backgrounds to see if I can find that wall.

[Wayne Land]

Interesting photo. I did an overlay comparison with the Billy tintype. The relative distances between facial features are a total match. The only real difference is this fella has a much more narrow face. But that could be the age difference I think. Definitely needs to be researched. Any provenance?

[clydec]

I am trying to find out when and where it was taken. I actually came across it on Pinterest. I followed the link back to a website that was a chat room discussing old style tin types. I will get that link and post it up here.

[clydec]

Here is the link to the chatroom. I am going to find out who this young fellow is. I don't think it is Billy, but he is close in appearance. www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=20491.0

[Wayne Land]

It can only be Billy "if" he was young enough in that photo so that between then and the famous tintype his face filled out quite a bit wider "or" the very unlikely possibility that the photo's dimensions have been distorted to make the face appear thinner than it really was. Faces do sometimes widen with age but I'm not sure that could have happened from age 16 to age 20 to the extent we see it there while the overall height of the individual stayed the same. I'm no expert on that. But I think it's worth looking into further because of the remarkable similarity of facial features.

[montanas]

I doubt it makes much difference, but the fact that he has a cigar in his mouth could cause the cheeks to slim a bit. I'm more interested in the pinkie ring. If the photo is being shown in its reverse form then it is on the same hand as the original BTK photo. Though this ring looks to be a bit smaller than Billy's. I also realize that such rings were popular then

[Wayne Land]

Correct about the cigar could cause the cheeks to slim a bit, but the difference in facial width is the entire face, cheek bones and all, not jus the cheeks. But since you mention the cigar, that may also be a similarity to Billy if you look at the photo with the Jones boys (at least questionable authenticity) where the fella said to be Billy has a cigar. That photo, I believe, looks very similar to this new one. I once visited with Judge Hefner in Hico and much of our discussion centered around his insistence that the accepted tintype of Billy really is not Billy. Maybe he was right? I'm not inclined to think so. But Judge Hefner did believe that the photo with the Jones boys was the real Billy The Kid. Just sayin'.

[clydec]

I originally thought this was the kid, but I don't think so now. The hands are too big to be Billy's and the ears are different. The eyebrows are similar.

[montanas]

Wayne, other than his telling Morrison about trading the photo for a scarf, did Brushy say anything else about it? I would have thought that it would have been a particularly important point of interest for Morrison and that he would have probed Brushy for all sorts of things concerning it, i.e., place it was taken, circumstances surrounding it, appearance etc.

[Wayne Land]

Not that I've ever heard or read. I too often wonder why Morrison didn't try to record more details of Brushy's story. But then there were in fact a series of tape recordings which probably still exist but are crumbling beyond any hopes they'll ever be heard again. I suspect those tapes have information Brushy shared that we will never have access too. Unfortunately!

[MissyS]

The background wall design I believe is Southwestern design, I had looked through some books at photos and I believe the photo of Dan Dedrick standing is the one I remember that had a background or wall design kinda similar. It's an interesting photo. Since the recordings are deteriated, I wish we could read Brushy's notebook or diary or both from his trunk, I don't know if he had a diary beside the notebook or if the notebook and the diary were one in the same? I don't know if those personal book or books contained anything pertaining to Brushy's past or if the contents were too insignificant to make public?, It would be nice to know if he wrote anything down significant like playing croquet with Sallie Chisum.

[jgaines]

Since Montanas brought up the Red Scarf, I'm going to mention the following again in case someone missed my other post on this subject. Brushy saying he traded the Red Scarf for his picture could be the single strongest evidence we have. Jim East was one of the lawmen transporting billy after his capture , and he wrote a letter in 1926 to Charlie Siringo describing the events of the prisoner transport and mentioned the Red Scarf traded for the picture . This letter has now been referenced in several books, but I have yet to find any book published while Brushy was still living that contained this information . Until it was printed in a book, this information was only in a private letter. If someone can correct me on this, and find a book prior to 1950 that referenced the Jim East letter , please do. But if not, this is really strong evidence.

[MissyS]

jgaines,
There is an interview of Paulita Maxwell taken from I believe Walter Noble Burns, I don't know what year? , but Paulita talked about the photo exchange with the scarf , here is some of that interview:
"Billy the Kid was Deluvina’s idol; she worshipped him; to her mind, there never was such a wonderful boy in all the world. When Billy was locked up in the Fort Sumner calaboose after his capture at Arroyo Tivan, Deluvina went to visit him. It was a cold winter’s day and, as the little jail was unheated, Deluvina came home and got a heavy scarf she had knitted and took it to her hero. In return for this kindness, the Kid gave her his only photograph, which he had carried around in his pocket. He would have given Deluvina nothing she would have prized more.

“My mother kept the picture in a cedar chest for years, and finally my sister, Odila, gave it to John Legg, a Forth Sumner saloon keeper and friend of the family. Legg was shot and killed and Charlie Foor, an executor of his estate, came into possession of the picture. When Foor’s house was burned down, the original was destroyed but fortunately many copies of it had been made. A wash drawing made from this photograph hangs in the Governor’s Palace at Santa Fé. I found the interview further down, good read www.thebluegrassspecial.com/archive/2011/feb2011/billy-the-kid-feb2011.php

[missy0517]

Sept 21, 2016 12:25:13 GMT -5 clydec said:

This picture is of a young cowboy taken around 1875.  Not saying it's the kid, but there definitely is a resemblance.  He even has the pinky ring.  If it is the kid, he would have been around 15 or 16 years old.  What do you guys think of this one?