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Post by clydec on Sept 13, 2016 11:06:22 GMT -5
most everyone who compares Brushy's photo at 29 years of age and the Billy tintype photo talk about the similarities with the eyebrows and overall facial shape. But, there is something that I have noticed about the ears of both men. Brushy has one ear bigger than the other and the smaller ear seems to have a deformity. When you look at the Billy tintype he also has one ear bigger than the other, but you can't quite see the smaller ear and see it's shape. I zoomed in on this smaller ear as much as I could without it pixelating too much and in my opinion it also has the same deformity as Brushy's ear. This is how this is going to be proven, because with all the other similarities Brushy has to the kid, this one would be the strongest proof that the two men are the one and the same.
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Post by MissyS on Sept 14, 2016 22:27:22 GMT -5
This is an AWESOME find about the ear, Good Job, I wonder what the odds are of Brushy and Billy both having one smaller ear than the other?
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 14, 2016 22:45:12 GMT -5
Uh-oh. I was taking a look at this and I hate to say it, that's the reverse image of Billy the Kid. In the tintype Billy the kids right ear appears larger while Brushy's left ear is the one that appears larger.
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 15, 2016 5:11:06 GMT -5
Good news though. This Thread made me notice something else about Brushy Bill Roberts. His ears are different from each other but in many pictures they appear to be about the same and some I think the lighting creates the illusion of them being drastically different. I started paying attention to very miniscule details and now I understand what people were saying when they said you kind of have to have the artist Eye to see the tiny tiny tiny differences. Both Brushy and Billy's right eyebrow is a little bit longer it seems with almost a little more gap between the eye and the eyebrow while the left eyebrow seems like it wants to stay closer to the eyeball. I always thought there was something strange about Billy the Kid's eyes and the tintype. It seems like the right eyebrow wants to come straight across while the left eyebrow wants to stay a little bit closer to the inside of the nose and eye, I guess that's the best way to explain it. Sorry this is going to be hard to explain. Some people will see it maybe and some people won't and maybe I'm wrong but there are some important things I noticed here. Some of the older pictures of Brushy his eyebrows are slightly frowed and it may be harder to see what I'm talking about. What makes it really difficult especially if your dyslexic is that there are so many reverse images of Billy the Kid but there are also reverse images of Brushy now that I noticed. To see what I'm talking about with the eyebrows and the eyes you need to get all the pictures of Brushy you can. On the last page of photos in the book Alias Billy the Kid, the top right corner, your right, of Brushy Bill Roberts is a reverse image, you can tell from his jacket and his ears and now I can tell just from the eyes and eyebrows. I've already taken into account that he could be wearing a woman's jacket, that's not it. The tintype is easy to tell because you know his pistol is on his right side. It's a great photo because you can see so much detail around the eye socket Etc and when comparing them to the tintype and other Brushy pictures it's hard to keep them straight, viewing them back and forth back and forth. Jameson's book beyond the grave, the second photo which is of Brushy Bill Roberts is a reverse image. It's the same one from Alias Billy the Kid but enlarged and better to look at. Pay close attention to the inner eye socket towards the nose and notice how his right eye has that deep gap between his eyebrows and the bridge of his nose. Also pay attention to the upper eyelid of his right eye . The crayon portrait of young Brushy Bill I sort of dismissed because it was made with Crayon, I'll look at it again later. Keep in mind when comparing photos there are many versions of the famous tintype. They are all useful when trying to find Clues but there is one that is the best of all of them. The CSV or whatever you call it. Main thing is remember that reverse image of Brushy bill and since Wayne said I could talk as much as I want to on here I'm going to go ahead and add this: I keep seeing all the time on FB where everyone says "Brushy Bill was left-handed but Billy the Kid was right handed." Just because he was wearing a right-handed holster does not mean he was right handed. Both Billy and Brushy were ambidextrous and just like Brushy... Billy preferred his left hand. (Also kids in those days that were left-handed were taught to write with their right hand,i think). Left-handed holsters were not easy to find just like they're not easy to find today and George Coe said Billy would shoot the pistol with his right hand which makes sense because that's where his holster is and he is ambidextrous but he would shoot his rifle with his left hand and that sounds to me like he preferred his left hand. I think it was George that said that, if anybody calls me out on it, I'll look up the source and find out for sure. Please pay attention to the eyebrows and eye to nose and eye to eyebrow spacing though.
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Post by clydec on Sept 15, 2016 6:33:18 GMT -5
Actually mckinley412, that image of Brushy is a reverse image as well. Both Brushy and Billy's right and left ears are the same there.
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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 15, 2016 10:19:33 GMT -5
Yes, you are correct. And I'm no expert on the history of photography but doesn't the fact that the photo of Brushy at @27 is a reverse image say something about "when" the photo was taken? If he was 27 at the time and born in 1859 then that photo was taken around 1886-87. When did reverse imagery become no longer the norm? In other words, would it make any sense that a reverse image photo was taken of Oliver Pleasant Roberts around 1907? I don't know.
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 15, 2016 10:29:36 GMT -5
It is the tintype Billy's right ear being compared to Brushy's left ear. It is two different ears being compared together. I am certain.
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 15, 2016 10:35:29 GMT -5
I guess I wasn't too quick on my reply or something. So now we know it was different ears compared to each other. Wayne, what are you talking about when you say the 27 year old picture was a reverse image. I don't think that works either
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Post by clydec on Sept 15, 2016 12:10:38 GMT -5
know the Brushy tintype at 27 years of age was a reversed tintype for sure. Here are Brushy's and Billy's tintype unreversed and the way they would have looked on the day they were taken. I wonder also if there is any way of verifying the date that Brushy's picture was taken on? This would solve the mystery of whether he was 70 or 90 when he died. Attachments:
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 15, 2016 12:34:19 GMT -5
The picture of young Billy is correct now but the picture of young Brushy is reversed. I can see this now in the eyes, eyebrows, ears, but also you have to... I guess you call it a lapel or something but he has the buttonhole side on the wrong side now when you view the photo in its entirety
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Post by clydec on Sept 16, 2016 8:25:03 GMT -5
I am going to find out for sure about that brushy pic being reversed. I will ask Brett Hall about it since the picture came from his book.
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 16, 2016 10:04:09 GMT -5
I have the book too and in the book the picture is facing the correct way. I have the yellow cover Edition. The earliest Edition. I owned Brett Halls book before he even knew it was available for sale he told me he doesn't even have one of those copies. Sorry I'm bragging, think it's awesome. need to get him to sign it for me
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Post by mckinley412 on Jul 7, 2017 18:01:14 GMT -5
While I'm on my laptop I just wanted to add some interesting photos of the ears that Wayneland has posted on his other site. At the same time I saw some older posts on here and I want to clarify a few things so that everyone is on the same page. Reversed images of Brushy and Billy or everywhere and I sincerely mean it when I say I'm not trying to point out flaws in anyone's book or whatever because these authors have certainly contributed much more than I have. However, what I say, I say with absolute certainty. There is a photo in Alias Billy the Kid of a reversed Brushy, also in Brett Hall's book, also in Daniel Edwards book he often if not all the time uses a reversed image of younger tintype Billy. The photos in Autobiography of BtK are still helpful if you look at them as two same sides of the face be compared to one another and also to give you an idea what he may have looked like with one smaller and larger ear. I believe they are the same person but Upham tintype shows a large right ear and we know because of the ejection port on the rifle. We can not clearly see Billy's left ear in the tintype to say if it is larger on not. There is a question of attached or unattched earlobes and in some pics Brushy's do not appear to be so completely attached but here are some interesting photos I though should be on this thread.
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Post by mckinley412 on Jul 7, 2017 18:04:57 GMT -5
Also go up four posts and look at the similarity in eyebrows keeping in mind that you are viewing one correct image and one reversed.
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Post by Carlos on Jul 30, 2022 23:22:29 GMT -5
Good news though. This Thread made me notice something else about Brushy Bill Roberts. His ears are different from each other but in many pictures they appear to be about the same and some I think the lighting creates the illusion of them being drastically different. I started paying attention to very miniscule details and now I understand what people were saying when they said you kind of have to have the artist Eye to see the tiny tiny tiny differences. Both Brushy and Billy's right eyebrow is a little bit longer it seems with almost a little more gap between the eye and the eyebrow while the left eyebrow seems like it wants to stay closer to the eyeball. I always thought there was something strange about Billy the Kid's eyes and the tintype. It seems like the right eyebrow wants to come straight across while the left eyebrow wants to stay a little bit closer to the inside of the nose and eye, I guess that's the best way to explain it. Sorry this is going to be hard to explain. Some people will see it maybe and some people won't and maybe I'm wrong but there are some important things I noticed here. Some of the older pictures of Brushy his eyebrows are slightly frowed and it may be harder to see what I'm talking about. What makes it really difficult especially if your dyslexic is that there are so many reverse images of Billy the Kid but there are also reverse images of Brushy now that I noticed. To see what I'm talking about with the eyebrows and the eyes you need to get all the pictures of Brushy you can. On the last page of photos in the book Alias Billy the Kid, the top right corner, your right, of Brushy Bill Roberts is a reverse image, you can tell from his jacket and his ears and now I can tell just from the eyes and eyebrows. I've already taken into account that he could be wearing a woman's jacket, that's not it. The tintype is easy to tell because you know his pistol is on his right side. It's a great photo because you can see so much detail around the eye socket Etc and when comparing them to the tintype and other Brushy pictures it's hard to keep them straight, viewing them back and forth back and forth. Jameson's book beyond the grave, the second photo which is of Brushy Bill Roberts is a reverse image. It's the same one from Alias Billy the Kid but enlarged and better to look at. Pay close attention to the inner eye socket towards the nose and notice how his right eye has that deep gap between his eyebrows and the bridge of his nose. Also pay attention to the upper eyelid of his right eye . The crayon portrait of young Brushy Bill I sort of dismissed because it was made with Crayon, I'll look at it again later. Keep in mind when comparing photos there are many versions of the famous tintype. They are all useful when trying to find Clues but there is one that is the best of all of them. The CSV or whatever you call it. Main thing is remember that reverse image of Brushy bill and since Wayne said I could talk as much as I want to on here I'm going to go ahead and add this: I keep seeing all the time on FB where everyone says "Brushy Bill was left-handed but Billy the Kid was right handed." Just because he was wearing a right-handed holster does not mean he was right handed. Both Billy and Brushy were ambidextrous and just like Brushy... Billy preferred his left hand. (Also kids in those days that were left-handed were taught to write with their right hand,i think). Left-handed holsters were not easy to find just like they're not easy to find today and George Coe said Billy would shoot the pistol with his right hand which makes sense because that's where his holster is and he is ambidextrous but he would shoot his rifle with his left hand and that sounds to me like he preferred his left hand. I think it was George that said that, if anybody calls me out on it, I'll look up the source and find out for sure. Please pay attention to the eyebrows and eye to nose and eye to eyebrow spacing though.
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