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Post by cassandra jane on Aug 8, 2023 14:22:52 GMT -5
As for UK politics cassandra that's nothing to do with this site but I sure do miss Maggie thatcher.. Please tell me that’s sarcasm. Yikes.
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Post by chivato88 on Aug 8, 2023 16:34:39 GMT -5
I think we have a slight misunderstanding. I've spoken with many historians and authors over the years (I can list them if you want).not one of them has ever asked me for a penny to answer my questions or queries they do it for the love of the subject but others choose to make a profit. Honestly I dont think no one cares here, if you noticed you're the only one crying about it. Instead of coming here and whine, go cry to the BTK coalition Facebook page , they will welcome you with open arms.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 8, 2023 17:41:49 GMT -5
Morley,
I am about 99% sure it is Billy. The one thing in it that gives me pause is the comparative heights of alleged Billy and alleged Levi. In other photos of Levi he appears to be of average or greater height but in this photo he appears unusually short. That can be partially explained by the fact he is farther from the camera, but assuming that shovel he's holding is 4.5 to 5 feet tall then he can't be much over 5 ft. But then the NYPD expert wasn't sure that was Levi. Maybe it's not him in which case that doesn't prove the young fellow on the left is not Billy. I hope at some point there can be confirmation of who the older man is with the shovel. As for Billy himself, I totally agree this photo looks like both the BTK tintype "and" various photos of Brushy.
Bottom line, at least for now, with what we know, that is an authentic photo of Billy The Kid. Dan probably needs to seek at least one more facial expert's opinion. Just to further cement the result. If a series of experts were shown the same photos and most of them came up with the same answers as the NYPD guy, then that would carry a lot of weight with those who are inclined to doubt the picture's authenticity.
To address another point you brought up, there is at least "some" provenance. In that the photo was discovered in the area where Levi and Maggie settled after leaving Silver City. Stronger provenance as to how it changed hands over the years would also seal the deal.
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Post by RonBk on Aug 9, 2023 1:15:23 GMT -5
I agree "Levi" is way too short to be Levi. Could be Levi's father maybe? David Daniel Miller, father of Levi, was born in 1807 so he would be about 70 in Colt45s photo. This here is a photo of David Daniel Miller from around 1850. So what about this guy some 30 plus years (and a couple of pounds) later?
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Post by tboor74 on Aug 9, 2023 5:11:37 GMT -5
People have to make a living. Authors are especially vulnerable in this cost of living crisis. Historians don't charge a penny there more than happy to pass on there knowing free of charge. Business as usual for the rest. Love taking advantage of gullible people...cost of living?? Not if you're paying.. *they're/their.......if we're going to be sarcastic or pedantic across the board
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Post by Morley on Aug 9, 2023 14:41:16 GMT -5
Morley, I am about 99% sure it is Billy. The one thing in it that gives me pause is the comparative heights of alleged Billy and alleged Levi. In other photos of Levi he appears to be of average or greater height but in this photo he appears unusually short. That can be partially explained by the fact he is farther from the camera, but assuming that shovel he's holding is 4.5 to 5 feet tall then he can't be much over 5 ft. But then the NYPD expert wasn't sure that was Levi. Maybe it's not him in which case that doesn't prove the young fellow on the left is not Billy. I hope at some point there can be confirmation of who the older man is with the shovel. As for Billy himself, I totally agree this photo looks like both the BTK tintype "and" various photos of Brushy. Bottom line, at least for now, with what we know, that is an authentic photo of Billy The Kid. Dan probably needs to seek at least one more facial expert's opinion. Just to further cement the result. If a series of experts were shown the same photos and most of them came up with the same answers as the NYPD guy, then that would carry a lot of weight with those who are inclined to doubt the picture's authenticity. To address another point you brought up, there is at least "some" provenance. In that the photo was discovered in the area where Levi and Maggie settled after leaving Silver City. Stronger provenance as to how it changed hands over the years would also seal the deal. Thanks for your answer Mr land. But I still don't see the importance of this photo. There isn't any provenance so your comparing unknown people. Anyone can own tools from yester year. I just don't get it, if someone could explain the excitement and significance I'm all ears..chav88?.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 9, 2023 14:55:08 GMT -5
I think the excitement is based on the idea it is an authentic photo of Billy that also bears a great resemblance to Brushy. Any photo of BTK that can be proven to be authentic would be worth a great deal of money. The film presents the photo as authentic based on the opinion of the NYPD facial recognition expert, who also says it is a photo of Brushy, thus the excitement. Is he wrong? Of course that's possible, but the man is not an amateur. He is a respected expert and his opinion is based on tested and proven techniques.
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Post by Morley on Aug 9, 2023 15:07:56 GMT -5
My opinion is it lacks in clarity and depth but that's just me. I can't see it going anywhere there's no substantial evidence. And you're correct if it was a genuine picture of the Kid it would be worth a large sum so you'd just sell it rather than get embroiled in, ifs,buts and maybe's.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 9, 2023 19:04:29 GMT -5
Dan doesn't own the photo so it's not his to sell. I have no idea what you mean by "clarity and depth" or "ifs, buts and maybes". Your comment itself lacks in clarity.
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Post by chivato88 on Aug 10, 2023 8:21:23 GMT -5
Morley, I am about 99% sure it is Billy. The one thing in it that gives me pause is the comparative heights of alleged Billy and alleged Levi. In other photos of Levi he appears to be of average or greater height but in this photo he appears unusually short. That can be partially explained by the fact he is farther from the camera, but assuming that shovel he's holding is 4.5 to 5 feet tall then he can't be much over 5 ft. But then the NYPD expert wasn't sure that was Levi. Maybe it's not him in which case that doesn't prove the young fellow on the left is not Billy. I hope at some point there can be confirmation of who the older man is with the shovel. As for Billy himself, I totally agree this photo looks like both the BTK tintype "and" various photos of Brushy. Bottom line, at least for now, with what we know, that is an authentic photo of Billy The Kid. Dan probably needs to seek at least one more facial expert's opinion. Just to further cement the result. If a series of experts were shown the same photos and most of them came up with the same answers as the NYPD guy, then that would carry a lot of weight with those who are inclined to doubt the picture's authenticity. To address another point you brought up, there is at least "some" provenance. In that the photo was discovered in the area where Levi and Maggie settled after leaving Silver City. Stronger provenance as to how it changed hands over the years would also seal the deal. Thanks for your answer Mr land. But I still don't see the importance of this photo. There isn't any provenance so your comparing unknown people. Anyone can own tools from yester year. I just don't get it, if someone could explain the excitement and significance I'm all ears..chav88?. Dude why dont you just admit that you dont accept the fact that Dan worked on the project. If it would have been Josh Slatten and his friends who had made the research, we would not be having this discussion right now. Atleast go watch the video instead of giving excuses not to. And do you think Billy was photographed only once in his life?
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Post by cassandra jane on Aug 10, 2023 14:00:06 GMT -5
Thanks for your answer Mr land. But I still don't see the importance of this photo. There isn't any provenance so your comparing unknown people. Anyone can own tools from yester year. I just don't get it, if someone could explain the excitement and significance I'm all ears..chav88?. Dude why dont you just admit that you dont accept the fact that Dan worked on the project. If it would have been Josh Slatten and his friends who had made the research, we would not be having this discussion right now. Atleast go watch the video instead of giving excuses not to. And do you think Billy was photographed only once in his life? Of course he does. The majority of the anti-Brushy/sceptical faction can’t accept any criticism or doubt. At least the people on this board are willing to admit there are areas of Brushy’s story that cast doubt on his credibility. I’ve never seen that kind of grace or openness with the old guard.
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Post by Morley on Aug 10, 2023 14:55:25 GMT -5
To all the brushy's. Would you all be prepared to pay a vast amount of money on the strength of the poor provenance of this photo?. Don't forget you'd be buying a picture of the Kid???. It's genuine Don't forget??.
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Post by chivato88 on Aug 10, 2023 15:20:04 GMT -5
To all the brushy's. Would you all be prepared to pay a vast amount of money on the strength of the poor provenance of this photo?. Don't forget you'd be buying a picture of the Kid???. It's genuine Don't forget??. Maybe I would if I had the cash, and btw did you watch Dan's doc yet? If not then what's the point of us debating here? It's worth the money, go watch it
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Post by Morley on Aug 10, 2023 15:34:20 GMT -5
Yes Dan got a fiver off of me and I'm disappointed with myself that I wasted that when there's needy children out there..
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Post by MissyS on Aug 10, 2023 22:58:15 GMT -5
I don’t feel guilty for paying to see Dan’s well researched entrusted photo. It’s so hot here in Texas and I’m pretty much shut in from the heat, I can be paying to stream some silly movies that don’t have any historical significance or spend a little on seeing a very well done video of a photo that may can help to uncover the truth of what really happened to this legendary young man in our history whose life has been an interest for years. In one post on this thread there’s a claim the photo doesn’t have a blemish on it, then another post saying it’s supposed to lack clarity, so which is it? I see an interesting clear photo of a clear face of a man that looks like Billy the Kid and also Brushy Bill standing there.
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