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Post by mckinley412 on Jun 22, 2019 6:17:18 GMT -5
wow. bone patterns? dig up Katherine wherever she is and compare them to the bones of who ever is in Ft. Sumner where ever he is. Nolan never has anything half way decent to say when it comes to this topic. He once said Brushy's story sounded good except for his family bible proved Brushy wrong... which I admit I have never seen this piece of evidence which must be fantastic. and I wonder if he has since I don't know anyone who has. How about if you compared Brushy's DNA to the mother of Oliver Roberts??? ....to see if they were related or not. I lose a lot of respect for Nolan when he starts answering questions instead of just making his books.
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Post by mckinley412 on Jul 9, 2019 4:43:16 GMT -5
But at least Nolan left it open, but .... I think the man knows it is a possibility but if you want to be king you can't easily admit you might believe in a crazy story like Brushy's, if you want to be respected as authority on Billy. I do respect Nolan but I wish he would say more on the topic because it deserves its respect too. It hasn't been debunked after all this time and Nolan is old and about time time he quits giving a damn about what everyone thinks. But it's hard when the facts are so .... there really is no way to prove one way or another on anything. Even Mr. Nolan has said things happened two different ways, he escaped at noon, or he escaped at breakfast and he has published mistakes he thought were true and corrected them later in new editions. He is a great asset to the Billy community but ... I just wish we had some of these book writers here so that we could debate. But you can't have it both ways. You either write a book and make a name for yourself and don't talk much to the public or you can talk much and nobody will want to listen. One of the things on my bucket list is to change Texas Truth Teller's mind before he dies. I want him to greet an elderly billy the kid with open arms and not give him a weird look when they meet.
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Post by leeb on Jul 9, 2019 10:26:24 GMT -5
Why would anyone believe in as you put it A Crazy Story like brushy's. Because that is Exactly what it is.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 9, 2019 13:12:16 GMT -5
But at least Nolan left it open, but .... I think the man knows it is a possibility but if you want to be king you can't easily admit you might believe in a crazy story like Brushy's, if you want to be respected as authority on Billy. I do respect Nolan but I wish he would say more on the topic because it deserves its respect too. It hasn't been debunked after all this time and Nolan is old and about time time he quits giving a damn about what everyone thinks. But it's hard when the facts are so .... there really is no way to prove one way or another on anything. Even Mr. Nolan has said things happened two different ways, he escaped at noon, or he escaped at breakfast and he has published mistakes he thought were true and corrected them later in new editions. He is a great asset to the Billy community but ... I just wish we had some of these book writers here so that we could debate. But you can't have it both ways. You either write a book and make a name for yourself and don't talk much to the public or you can talk much and nobody will want to listen. One of the things on my bucket list is to change Texas Truth Teller's mind before he dies. I want him to greet an elderly billy the kid with open arms and not give him a weird look when they meet. mckinley412
Faith vs. Logic Believers have faith that some if not all of Brushy’s story was true, apparently because his description of events in Lincoln County closely mirrored information in “The Saga of Billy the Kid” published in 1926 that Brushy might have read. Logic is based on available facts. There is only one set of facts. The following conclusive evidence indicates that Brushy Bill was Oliver P Roberts. Census records prove that Oliver (Brushy) Roberts was born in 1879. Oliver (Brushy) Roberts reported he was born about 1879 in the 1920 and 1930 census. Census records prove that Oliver (Brushy) Roberts was in Van Zandt County in 1910. Marriage records prove that Mollie Brown married Oliver (Brushy) Roberts as he told Morrison. WWI registration proves Oliver Pleasant (Brushy) Roberts was born in 1879 and his wife was Mollie. The theory that Brushy Bill assumed the alias of Oliver Roberts about 1911 is baseless and a feeble attempt to perpetuate the myth that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid. - no alias was necessary, for published literature identified Billy the Kid as William Bonney or William Antrim. - no evidence has been found that Oliver P Roberts, son of H. O. and Sarah Elizabeth Roberts, died, departed, or otherwise disappeared from census records after 1910. - the WWI registration card of Oliver Pleasant Roberts has a birth date of 26 August 1878, and the birth date of Oliver Roberts, the son of H. O. and Sarah Roberts, in the 1900 census of Hopkins County was August 1879. Oliver (Brushy) “borrowed” the surname, Dunn, of his father’s first wife, Caroline Dunn, for the name of his mythical mother, Mary Adeline Dunn. Oliver (Brushy) “borrowed” the name of his mother, Elizabeth Ferguson, for the name of Brushy’s mythical stepmother, Elizabeth Ferguson. A plethora of explanations and excuses does not change these facts.
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Post by leeb on Jul 9, 2019 13:52:55 GMT -5
But at least Nolan left it open, but .... I think the man knows it is a possibility but if you want to be king you can't easily admit you might believe in a crazy story like Brushy's, if you want to be respected as authority on Billy. I do respect Nolan but I wish he would say more on the topic because it deserves its respect too. It hasn't been debunked after all this time and Nolan is old and about time time he quits giving a damn about what everyone thinks. But it's hard when the facts are so .... there really is no way to prove one way or another on anything. Even Mr. Nolan has said things happened two different ways, he escaped at noon, or he escaped at breakfast and he has published mistakes he thought were true and corrected them later in new editions. He is a great asset to the Billy community but ... I just wish we had some of these book writers here so that we could debate. But you can't have it both ways. You either write a book and make a name for yourself and don't talk much to the public or you can talk much and nobody will want to listen. One of the things on my bucket list is to change Texas Truth Teller's mind before he dies. I want him to greet an elderly billy the kid with open arms and not give him a weird look when they meet.
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Post by leeb on Jul 9, 2019 13:54:14 GMT -5
But at least Nolan left it open, but .... I think the man knows it is a possibility but if you want to be king you can't easily admit you might believe in a crazy story like Brushy's, if you want to be respected as authority on Billy. I do respect Nolan but I wish he would say more on the topic because it deserves its respect too. It hasn't been debunked after all this time and Nolan is old and about time time he quits giving a damn about what everyone thinks. But it's hard when the facts are so .... there really is no way to prove one way or another on anything. Even Mr. Nolan has said things happened two different ways, he escaped at noon, or he escaped at breakfast and he has published mistakes he thought were true and corrected them later in new editions. He is a great asset to the Billy community but ... I just wish we had some of these book writers here so that we could debate. But you can't have it both ways. You either write a book and make a name for yourself and don't talk much to the public or you can talk much and nobody will want to listen. One of the things on my bucket list is to change Texas Truth Teller's mind before he dies. I want him to greet an elderly billy the kid with open arms and not give him a weird look when they meet. Mr Nolan is old, what does that mean?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 9, 2019 14:15:34 GMT -5
Mr Nolan is old, what does that mean? leeb, I think it means he was born 7 March 1931 in Liverpool. Nothing else.
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Post by leeb on Jul 10, 2019 13:00:28 GMT -5
Mr Nolan is old, what does that mean? leeb, I think it means he was born 7 March 1931 in Liverpool. Nothing else.
weather Nolan is old or not and should take a back seat is derogatory, everyone has access to the same records and information all that means is their opinions differ. Until anything new crops up then the same ground hog day arguments will continue like they have done for the last 70years.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 10, 2019 13:42:09 GMT -5
leeb, I think it means he was born 7 March 1931 in Liverpool. Nothing else.
weather Nolan is old or not and should take a back seat is derogatory, everyone has access to the same records and information all that means is their opinions differ. Until anything new crops up then the same ground hog day arguments will continue like they have done for the last 70years. leeb, Nolan is no fly-by-night researcher and writer.
From Wikipedia: "In 1993, Nolan received the Border Regional Library Association of Texas Award for Literary Excellence. In 2001, he was awarded the first France V. Scholes Prize for outstanding research from the Historical Society of New Mexico. The same year, he received the first J. Evetts Haley Fellowship from the Haley Memorial Library in Midland, Texas. In 2005, the Western Outlaw-Lawman History Association (WOLA) gave him its highest honour, the Glenn Shirley Award, for his lifetime contribution to outlaw-lawman history. In 2006, The Westerners Foundation named his The West of Billy the Kid one of the 100 most important 20th-century historical works on the American West. In 2007, the National Outlaw-Lawman Association (NOLA) awarded him its William D. Reynolds Award in Recognition of Outstanding Research and Writing in Western History. A year later, True West Magazine named him "Best Living Non-fiction Writer""
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Post by leeb on Jul 11, 2019 4:08:44 GMT -5
I'm fully aware of Mr Nolan's prowess in writing and researching and the fact that his the leading authoritie regarding the kid. But your probably going to post a census record telling me otherwise!
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Post by mckinley412 on Jul 11, 2019 7:28:41 GMT -5
People that are old should not care what everyone thinks. You must make a career for yourself but you can't take your money with you. It wasn't an insult. But most old people I know don't care as much about reputation when it comes to telling the truth.
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Post by mckinley412 on Jul 11, 2019 7:32:11 GMT -5
or are death bed confessions a figment of my imagination also? and maybe Brushy could have admitted he was Billy when he was young.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 11, 2019 9:56:59 GMT -5
I'm fully aware of Mr Nolan's prowess in writing and researching and the fact that his the leading authoritie regarding the kid. But your probably going to post a census record telling me otherwise! Nope. Nolan is unquestionably the foremost authority on Billy the Kid.
Contrast that with an excerpt from the website of the most prolific writer of books about Brushy Bill:
"The award-winning author of more than 100 books, 1500 published articles and essays, 400 songs, and dozens of poems. He is the creator and author of the popular Beyond the Grave series including books on Billy the Kid, John Wilkes Booth, Butch Cassidy, and Amelia Earhart. His Buried Treasures of America series numbers thirty-six books and counting. He is the best selling treasure author in America, and his prominence as a professional fortune hunter has led to stints as a consultant for the Unsolved Mysteries television show, the Travel Channel, and a number of other television projects."
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Post by leeb on Jul 11, 2019 11:37:21 GMT -5
or are death bed confessions a figment of my imagination also? and maybe Brushy could have admitted he was Billy when he was young. if he had admitted he was the kid in his younger days then perhaps he wouldn't have ended up penniless and living in a shack. But then he wouldn't have been able to hide behind the forgetful old man scenario when he failed to answer questions about the county war.
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Post by clydec on Jul 11, 2019 12:58:45 GMT -5
or are death bed confessions a figment of my imagination also? and maybe Brushy could have admitted he was Billy when he was young. if he had admitted he was the kid in his younger days then perhaps he wouldn't have ended up penniless and living in a shack. But then he wouldn't have been able to hide behind the forgetful old man scenario when he failed to answer questions about the county war. Maybe, or maybe he would have been believed and been hung. Who knows. It is probably the same reason that William Campbell alias Joe HInes kept quiet all those years or that Butch Cassidy took an alias when he came back alive from Bolivia, they were wanted men!
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