|
Post by Thain Timmertberg on Oct 6, 2011 10:19:55 GMT -5
That is cool. if you could send an 8 x 10 of each to 107 west oak st. warrenton mo 63383 it would be great, let me know what your address is and i'll send you some money. I'm a huge Brushy fan and I think I've contributed a lot to these discussions in the past, lol, if that makes it more worth the while.
|
|
William H Bonney my hero
Guest
|
Post by William H Bonney my hero on Oct 7, 2011 10:22:36 GMT -5
Im certain That Brushy was Billy the kid and that somebody else was killed that night (Billy Barlow).
also, not many people know this but there were actually sightings of Billy in the years that followed.
people who knew the Kid and said they saw him after July 14, 1881. For example, Mrs. J. H. Wood, of Seven Rivers, claimed she served Billy a dinner three days after he was supposedly killed. Manuel Taylor, a boyhood friend of Billy's from Silver City, claimed he ran into Billy at a bullfight in Guadalajara, Mexico in 1914. Ben Harbert, of Taos, New Mexico, who also knew the Kid, claimed he saw him in Taos after July 14, 1881. Jesse Cox, a wagon driver from New Mexico, claimed he had seen and spoken to Billy numerous times after 1881.
also Wayne land, if Brushy DNA matches that of Billy the Kid do you think they would remake the Youngs guns movies and more accurate? (sorry for spelling mistake)
the first one could be about Brushy childhood from December 31 1859 and the second film could be about the fight at fort sumnner and the rest of his life from 1881 to 1950.
|
|
William H Bonney my hero
Guest
|
Post by William H Bonney my hero on Oct 7, 2011 11:50:11 GMT -5
lies of John Miller
John Miller never told his story officially and the vast majority of his claim is based around second-hand information and speculation from those who knew him.
In a 1900 census report, Miller said he was born in 1857. In a 1910 report, he claimed he was born in 1852. On the memorial plaque at the Pioneer Home Cemetery where Miller is buried, his birthdate is listed as 1850. All three of these dates would make Miller older than Billy the Kid. Although it's possible Miller would lie about his age to throw off potential pursuers, it's not likely he would make himself older, but younger, since the Kid was known to look far younger than he actually was.
Miller himself told several friends he only knew Billy the Kid, having worked as a ranchhand for the Chisum brothers.
Miller owned a 45 pistol with an extra-long barrel that he claimed he used as Billy the Kid. However, Billy was known to use .44s with normal sized barrels, or the smaller .41s. Furthermore, Miller's pistol had several notches on it, which he claimed were for the men he killed. Billy did not have such notches on his pistols, and it's doubtful that any other gunfighter did either.
If John Miller was the Kid, how did he escape from Pat Garrett at Fort Sumner? Apparently, Miller told different versions of this to different friends. One version is that he was shot in the chest a week or so before July 14, and that Isadora was nursing him back to health when Garrett accidentally killed a Mexican sheep-herder in the Maxwell house. Another version is that Miller was himself shot by Garrett in the Maxwell house, and played dead while Garrett quickly inspected him. When Miller was then carried away by his Mexican friends to be prepared for burial, he showed signs of life and was hidden by Isadora. Meanwhile, a Mexican who died a day earlier was placed in the casket meant for Billy and buried. In this latter scenario, Garrett never learned that Billy was not killed.
|
|
|
Post by nmjames on Oct 17, 2011 23:10:00 GMT -5
Oct. 7th. William wrote:
People who knew the Kid and said they saw him after July 14, 1881. For example, Mrs. J.H. Wood of Seven Rivers.....
J.H. Wood and Barbra Fanning were married in Texas in 1878. Their first child Mary was born in Junction, TX. in 1879. Their second child J. A. was born in Junction, TX. in late 1881. They arrived in Seven Rivers in 1882. J.H. died in Hope, NM. in 1919 and Barbra died in 1932. J.A died in 1959 in California.
There are a lot of stories of people that saw Billy after July 14, 1881, but if people would do a little research, they would find most of the stories are not true.
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Oct 18, 2011 0:39:36 GMT -5
Was she clear on the dates as to when he was allegedly killed and/or when she served him dinner? I'm guessing your records come from an 1882 census? Do you have the specific birth date for J.A. in "late 1881"? Sometimes census takers fail to get all the answers they're suppose to, so they guess or they make assumptions. Census records are not infallible.
Of course it is entirely possible she was lying. It is also possible that she was confused about the dates, or the records referred to are inaccurate. So, it is also possible she was telling the truth. We'll probably never know.
|
|
|
Post by nmjames on Oct 18, 2011 7:22:37 GMT -5
Wayne,
I didn't get the information just from the Census. I have lived in the area all my life, know a lot of the history and also know people that are kin. I have also done a lot of research.
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Oct 18, 2011 12:26:00 GMT -5
OK. I appreciate your sharing the information and of course, I would be curious as to the source. I'm sure lots of people told untruths about many things regarding Billy. There's no proof she was telling the truth and there's no hard proof Brushy was telling the truth, nor Martile Able, Jose Montoya, Severo Gallegos or the Jones brothers. There's no proof Robert E. Lee told the truth, or Dewitt Travis or J. Frank Dalton. There's no proof whether Deluvina Maxwell was telling the truth when she said she went into the room and viewed Billy's body the night he was shot or whether she was telling the truth when she said she never saw the body that night.
These types of conflicts serve to make us curious what really happened to Billy The Kid and continue to intrigue us.
|
|
|
Post by nmjames on Oct 18, 2011 20:25:28 GMT -5
Wayne,
My source is written family history, oral family history, census, tombstones, computer, and books.
I do know the Jones and Gallegos but will not discuss what I was told.
As for Deluvina Maxwell, I would love to see where she stated she never saw the body that night. I don't think you have the correct statement.
|
|
|
Post by nmjames on Oct 19, 2011 8:01:21 GMT -5
Wayne,
After my post last night, I went back through some material. I found the quote Deluvina made that I was thinking about but also found one in a book about Deluvina not going into the room that night. Both are said to have been from Deluvina's interview with J. Evetts Haley. I know the people at the Haley Lib. in Midland. I will see what I can find out.
|
|
|
Post by nmjames on Oct 21, 2011 12:20:12 GMT -5
Wayne,
I called the Haley Library and they are going to pull the information on the Deluvina Maxwell interview with Mr. Haley and send it to me. It may take a few days. I will let you know.
|
|
|
Post by nmjames on Oct 29, 2011 11:26:53 GMT -5
I got part of the interview between Deluvina and Haley and Deluvina states that the story about her being there and going in with a candle to see if Billy was dead, was not true. She said that she did not see Billy the night after he was killed, but saw him the following morning. The interview is a short one and is only 2.5 pages.
Due to Library policy, they will not make photo copies of the entire interview. I was told what most of it was about.
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Oct 29, 2011 12:34:38 GMT -5
Thanks so much for sharing that. I've heard the basics of it before but you were able to get more specifics. Did it say where she was the night of the shooting? Another version had her going into the room and turning over the body, identifying Billy, and then practically assaulting Garrett and yelling "you've killed my little boy", or something to that affect.
|
|
|
Post by nmjames on Oct 29, 2011 21:58:29 GMT -5
Wayne,
In Mr. Nolan's book, The West of Billy the Kid, he has Deluvina's statement to Haley but he also adds Deluvina Maxwell cursed Garrett and pounded his chest, with a little more to the statement. When I talked to the Haley, I was told that part is not in her interview. They feel that part of the statement came from another source. The first chance I get, I will ask Mr. Nolan where that part of the story came from. My thought is that she was told about Billy being killed and may have come outside and confronted Garrett. She didn't go into the room but did see the body the next day. However some books have Deluvina pounding Garrett at the cemetery. There is nothing in the interview about this. She talks about how the people loved Billy, him being a good dancer and about them being friends. She talks about when she came to Fort Sumner and being there when Billy was killed.
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Oct 30, 2011 0:53:07 GMT -5
Thanks again. That's really interesting stuff. I know some years back one poster over on another board who believed Deluvina "did" see the body that night insisted that Haley never really interviewed her at all. Claimed the whole interview was a fraud. Who knows? But it's fun to investigate those things. I wish I had access to more sources.
|
|