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Post by 44colt on Oct 5, 2017 11:41:37 GMT -5
For a long time critics claimed there was no record of a William H. Roberts in the Rough Rider rolls, but then I found one and posted it on this forum. Then the criticism was that it couldn't be him because he wouldn't have served with Buffalo soldiers. Then someone posted a photo of a white man with Buffalo Soldiers.
As far as I know, Brushy Bill never claimed he used the alias William S. Murphy, but there is a William S. Murphy whose service seems to match what Brushy claimed.
There are actually multiple William Murphys in the rough rider rolls. I discuss several possibilities in my book, and one of them is that he used this name.
It really doesn't matter. The standard keeps changing. William H. Roberts is in the rolls. We could just stop there if you want.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 5, 2017 15:28:36 GMT -5
Very little of the life of Henry McCarty, alias Billy the Kid, has been documented, and his early life remains a mystery.
He was one of the witnesses of the 1873 marriage of his mother, Catherine McCarty, to William Antrim in Santa Fe. He probably lived with her in Sedgwick County, Kansas, in 1870 and 1871, where Catherine McCarty and William Antrim each owned property. He was probably the individual identified as Wm. Bonny in the 1880 census of San Miguel County, New Mexico Territory. He was tried and convicted for murder in 1881. His death as William Bonney was recorded on the 15th day of June 1881 in the Coroners Jury Report.
The location of Oliver P. Roberts is documented in census reports at 10 year intervals from his birth in 1879 in Sebastian County, Arkansas, until his death in 1950, in Hico, Texas. He was a farmer, and farm laborer.
The location of Brushy Bill Roberts has never been documented prior to 1949. The life of Brushy Bill Roberts documented by Morrison relied entirely upon unsubstantiated claims of Brushy Bill. Brushy Bill described events prior to 1870, but none have been verified. Brushy Bill described events that occurred in Lincoln County, a description almost identical to information published by Walter Burns Noble in 1926. Brushy Bill described events that occurred after 15 July 1881, but none have been verified.
Brushy Bill’s story included enough accurate information to make his story believable. Brushy Bill named countries, states, and towns that were real. Buffalo Gap was a topographical feature before it became a community. The Chisholm Trail was the primary route for cattle drives in the 1870s. The Cheyenne Roundup was famous in the west. Brushy Bill named organizations that existed: Pinkerton detectives; Texas Rangers, Anti-Horse Thief Association, U S Marshals, and Rough Riders. He named well-known western characters: Belle Starr, Judge Parker, and Tom Waggoner.
Brushy Bill Roberts was Oliver Pleasant Roberts. No evidence has been found that they were two different men.
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Post by 44colt on Oct 5, 2017 17:48:44 GMT -5
He probably lived with her in Sedgwick County, Kansas, in 1870 and 1871, where Catherine McCarty and William Antrim each owned property. He was probably the individual identified as Wm. Bonny in the 1880 census of San Miguel County, New Mexico Territory. I was really excited to get a response with a lot of great hard evidence and facts. Instead, I see there is literally nothing in your post but conjecture. Certainly not a problem, just not what I expected. There is absolutely no hard evidence that Brushy studied up on Billy the Kid, was coached by Morrison, or that they were intending to defraud anyone. All of their private correspondence indicate a legitimate effort to obtain a pardon. Wait a minute....I thought Brushy was illiterate according to critics? How could he have studied Billy the Kid or Burn's book? Was he literate enough at one point to obtain a PhD level understanding of the intricacies of Billy the Kid and the Lincoln County War, including the detail that 3 US Army soldiers were killed during the Battle of Lincoln, which is only referenced in Col. Dudley's court martial papers (which were not readily available in 1950)....only then to become illiterate once again to where he couldn't read or write? Wait...did he know to write to the Army Archives to obtain copies of the court martial so he would leave no detail unturned? Where did he get the money for this? Boy, that farmer Ollie sure had some book smarts. He must have fit that in between his farm work by candlelight. Round and round with no evidence or facts when the truth is staring us right in the face. Oh, by the way, Brushy was documented in the Shreveport Times on June 15, 1942 as participating in a rodeo in Gladewater, TX. Come to think of it, I should probably include that in my book, since his teeth were removed in Gladewater and he said he lived there and served as an undercover policeman there. How interesting that he actually is documented as living there. Also, how cool is it that at this huge event of more than 15,000 people, he is mentioned by name by the President of Round Up Association and has top billing right alongside the Postmaster. Hey, thanks! ![]()  Save |
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 5, 2017 18:28:00 GMT -5
Daniel,
I was reading once again pages 80 through 84 where you presented a rationale justifying the assumption that William S. Murphy was Brushy Bill. Do you believe William S. Murphy, who was buried in Bennington Cemetery, Bennington, Bryan County, Oklahoma, in 1928, was Brushy Bill?
I hope that can be answered with a yes or no.
Thanks,
TTT
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Post by 44colt on Oct 5, 2017 18:33:25 GMT -5
Daniel, I was reading once again pages 80 through 84 where you presented a rationale justifying the assumption that William S. Murphy was Brushy Bill. Do you believe William S. Murphy, who was buried in Bennington Cemetery, Bennington, Bryan County, Oklahoma, in 1928, was Brushy Bill? I hope that can be answered with a yes or no. Thanks, TTT Definitely no. I do not believe the person buried in Bennington Cemetery was Brushy Bill. Brushy Bill was alive until 1950. |
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 5, 2017 20:38:22 GMT -5
Thank you. I'm glad you agree that William S. Murphy, the Rough Rider that made the presentation to Theodore Roosevelt, was not Brushy Bill.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 5, 2017 21:22:34 GMT -5
Daniel,
I am delighted that you found the newspaper article that said Brushy Bill participated in rodeos. The newspaper article confirms the accuracy of William Tunstill’s research, information found on pp. 35 & 36, “Billy the Kid and Me Were the Same”. Tunstill visited the granddaughter of Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson in her home. She knew that Brushy Bill had retired from the rodeo circuit and settled back in Hico.
Tunstill said, “I brought some pictures with me and asked her to identify them if she could. All of them were of Brushy Bill with his attorney, William Morrison, the second with Governor Thomas Mabry. Yes, she said, that’s Ollie. Then she said I want you and Mrs. Tunstill to see a picture of my grandmother, Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Roberts. We got up from our chairs and followed her to the living room. There on the wall was a large picture. I looked for about a minute and said I thought that was Brushy Bill’s mother. Oh, no, was her reply. I told her the same picture was illustrated on page 58 in Sonnichsen’s book, “Alias Billy the Kid”.
Brushy Bill, whose real name was Oliver P. Roberts, told Morrison that the picture of his mother, Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Roberts, was his grandmother, the mythical Mary Adeline Dunn (photo on page 31 of “Alias Billy the Kid”, 2014 printing). He also told Morrison that Elizabeth Ferguson was his step-mother , and that his half-sister, Martha Heath, was his cousin.
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Post by 44colt on Oct 6, 2017 9:07:29 GMT -5
Thank you. I'm glad you agree that William S. Murphy, the Rough Rider that made the presentation to Theodore Roosevelt, was not Brushy Bill. That's not what I said. I am beginning to wonder if you are being sarcastic for effect (as I have been in some of my posts above) or if you truly don't understand. |
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Post by 44colt on Oct 6, 2017 9:18:47 GMT -5
Daniel, I am delighted that you found the newspaper article that said Brushy Bill participated in rodeos. The newspaper article confirms the accuracy of William Tunstill’s research, information found on pp. 35 & 36, “Billy the Kid and Me Were the Same”. Tunstill visited the granddaughter of Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson in her home. She knew that Brushy Bill had retired from the rodeo circuit and settled back in Hico. Tunstill said, “I brought some pictures with me and asked her to identify them if she could. All of them were of Brushy Bill with his attorney, William Morrison, the second with Governor Thomas Mabry. Yes, she said, that’s Ollie. Then she said I want you and Mrs. Tunstill to see a picture of my grandmother, Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Roberts. We got up from our chairs and followed her to the living room. There on the wall was a large picture. I looked for about a minute and said I thought that was Brushy Bill’s mother. Oh, no, was her reply. I told her the same picture was illustrated on page 58 in Sonnichsen’s book, “Alias Billy the Kid”. Brushy Bill, whose real name was Oliver P. Roberts, told Morrison that the picture of his mother, Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Roberts, was his grandmother, the mythical Mary Adeline Dunn (photo on page 31 of “Alias Billy the Kid”, 2014 printing). He also told Morrison that Elizabeth Ferguson was his step-mother , and that his half-sister, Martha Heath, was his cousin. Very pleased that he was successful in convincing people he was Oliver P. Roberts as this was his aim. We don't know exactly yet what Brushy told Morrison and what Morrison had to pull from old notebooks due to the fact Brushy died suddenly before he was able to tell his story AFTER the cat was out of the bag that he was Billy the Kid. If you understood the timeline of how this happened you would better understand. Morrison recorded Brushy early on when Brushy first admitted being the Kid, but there is indication Brushy was still hedging his information at that point. Once Morrison was convinced the full focus was obtaining the evidence for a pardon. Due to distance and time, they never revisited the genealogy issue before Brushy died, but it was on the list to address. I think I've represented and clarified my views as much as I'm willing to in this thread for now. I have fully responded to your queries. Thanks for reading my book, your commitment to finding the truth, and for your contributions to this board. |
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Post by 44colt on Oct 6, 2017 9:21:21 GMT -5
Daniel, I am delighted that you found the newspaper article that said Brushy Bill participated in rodeos. The newspaper article confirms the accuracy of William Tunstill’s research, information found on pp. 35 & 36, “Billy the Kid and Me Were the Same”. Tunstill visited the granddaughter of Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson in her home. She knew that Brushy Bill had retired from the rodeo circuit and settled back in Hico. Tunstill said, “I brought some pictures with me and asked her to identify them if she could. All of them were of Brushy Bill with his attorney, William Morrison, the second with Governor Thomas Mabry. Yes, she said, that’s Ollie. Then she said I want you and Mrs. Tunstill to see a picture of my grandmother, Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Roberts. We got up from our chairs and followed her to the living room. There on the wall was a large picture. I looked for about a minute and said I thought that was Brushy Bill’s mother. Oh, no, was her reply. I told her the same picture was illustrated on page 58 in Sonnichsen’s book, “Alias Billy the Kid”. Brushy Bill, whose real name was Oliver P. Roberts, told Morrison that the picture of his mother, Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Roberts, was his grandmother, the mythical Mary Adeline Dunn (photo on page 31 of “Alias Billy the Kid”, 2014 printing). He also told Morrison that Elizabeth Ferguson was his step-mother , and that his half-sister, Martha Heath, was his cousin. Oh, forgot to share that Brushy was still doing rodeos in 1949. I guess this granddaughter didn't know him very well. |
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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 6, 2017 9:30:07 GMT -5
TTT,
Geneva Pittmon's opinion of Brushy's true identity is not proof of anything. Once and for all, can we please just acknowledge that her conviction he was her Uncle Oliver doesn't mean that's who he truly was? She simply believed what her elders told her. Please, a little common sense here.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 6, 2017 18:30:29 GMT -5
Daniel,
"That's not what I said. I am beginning to wonder if you are being sarcastic for effect (as I have been in some of my posts above) or if you truly don't understand."
I apologize for phrasing my question so poorly.
Let me be more specific and avoid any ambiguity.
Do you believe William S. Murphy, whose activities you discussed on pp. 80-85, was Brushy Bill?
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Post by sushiadam on Oct 7, 2017 0:28:24 GMT -5
Tried comparing these two now that the Croquet Photo has been verified, it's closer than I expected! Just want to call your attention to the fact that Brushy would have been 39 years old in the Rough Riders vs. 17 as Billy the Kid. Brushy was wearing a mustache as early as age 27 and it is present in every photo since then. The man identified as the Cherokee Indian is not wearing a mustache. Also, what you posted has been reversed. In the original, that man is facing to his right, not his left. SaveYes I reversed it for comparison purposes,but wouldn't the Croquet photo have also been reversed? The age difference seems about right for somebody who looks young for their age and ages slowly, looks to be maybe 5 pounds heavier in the second picture. Good point on the mustache pics, but at the same time a handful of photos doesn't prove that somebody had the same look their whole life, and there is pictures of him as an old man clean shaven. |
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Post by mckinley412 on Oct 7, 2017 0:47:35 GMT -5
I think the croquet photo has already been reversed so that you are seeing the correct view. BUT. The background does not match up, or the windows, or the roof, the mountains to the left, when zoomed in on...it's not the place. I believe it's Billy. Location is wrong. Many hills have similarities, many houses do, the chances of the same one standing would not be good. But flipping photos is sometimes appropriate, for comparison, sometimes not. I like the comparison with the soldier. I don't like the house comparisons in the croquet photo only because it doesn't match.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 10, 2017 19:02:30 GMT -5
"Thanks for reading my book, your commitment to finding the truth, and for your contributions to this board."
Daniel,
I am committed to questioning the spurious claims that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid; that J. Frank Dalton, James Lafayette Courtney, William John James, or Jacob Benjamin Gerlt was Jesse Woodson James; that William Columbus Anderson was William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson. Research, and assessment of all evidence is preferable to only searching for evidence to support a preconceived opinion.
I do have access to "Billy the Kid, an Autobiography". I was anticipating newly discovered information about Billy the Kid, or even Brushy Bill, not a reprint of "Alias Billy the Kid" which I own. The new theory that William S. Murphy, presented on pages 77 through 84, implying that William S. Murphy could have been Brushy Bill, is not a possibility. Experienced researchers found records of William S. Murphy and his wife, Emma, in Bryan County, Oklahoma, in the 1920 census. William was a lawyer, and his birthplace was listed as Mississippi, not Texas as Brushy Bill claimed. The researcher also found that William S. Murphy and his wife Emma are buried in the Bennington Cemetery, Bryan County, Oklahoma. William was born 26 January 1866, and died 10 February 1928. The most conclusive evidence that William S. Murphy could not have been Brushy Bill is found in pension records filed from Oklahoma. On 23 October 1926 William S. Murphy, an invalid, applied for a pension based on his service in M 1 U S Volunteer Cavalry. After his death 10 February 1928, his widow, Emma applied for a pension 6 April 1928.
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