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Post by cassandra jane on Jan 28, 2021 14:45:59 GMT -5
Census records definitely aren't accurate a lot of the time in my experience. Doing my own family tree, it's almost impossible to track down accurate dates for people so far back because they either have different parents listed on each, different birth years or death years, even different children or siblings on occasion - which in a place as small as where my family come from, should be impossible to mess up that badly itself. That's why I don't tend to listen to the insistence upon census/birth records being concrete truth on here.
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Post by devorerd on Feb 1, 2021 16:10:03 GMT -5
Thank you for the reply and the reference points. From my view, a record and cert in the 1800's are pretty close to the same thing. I'm not married to the fact that Brushy was BTK, is is possible, and if he was he was probably born in 1861, May, in Indiana. Whoever he was, the guy lived an interesting life, no doubt. I must confess, I just don't by the ruse that Garrett took out a 18 or 19 yr old kid, considering they were are least friends at one point.
What is your opinion on my question #1 and #4 (Palm Tree).
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Post by cassandra jane on Feb 1, 2021 16:55:58 GMT -5
Re #1 and #4 - I’ve always held to the idea no matter how much attention/recognition it might get me (I’m notoriously private to the point of obsession) that I would never reveal something about myself that wasn’t true. That would definitely apply in this situation if I still had a death sentence hanging over my head. I would never risk my neck if I were lying.
On the subject of #4, I don’t think I’ve heard about them being masons but that’s absolutely fascinating and if true, may yet lend credibility to Brushy’s story or at the very least, the suspicion of the Coes that Billy didn’t die in 1881 (never mind all the eyewitness accounts that contradict the official history). I’m going to have to look around for that story.
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Post by RonBk on Jun 4, 2021 11:44:28 GMT -5
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Post by RonBk on Jun 4, 2021 13:36:28 GMT -5
Do anyone possess the skill to read and transcript William Antrims 1915 affidavit?
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Post by chivato88 on Jun 4, 2021 18:54:28 GMT -5
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Post by Elwood on Jun 4, 2021 22:25:18 GMT -5
Do anyone possess the skill to read and transcript William Antrims 1915 affidavit? Transcribed affidavit that was completed by William H. Antrim for Civil War pension, April 2, 1915. 3-389 Department of the Interior Bureau of Pensions Washington, D.C., January 2, 1915 Sir: Please answer, at your earliest convenience, the questions enumerated below. The information is requested for future use, and it may be of great value to your widow or children. Use the enclosed envelope, which requires no stamp. Very respectfully, G. M. Saltzgaber, Commissioner William H. Antrim El Paso Tex 977482 ACT May Hotel Delmar No. 1. Date and place of birth? Answer: 1st day of December 1842. Huntsville, Ind. The name of organizations in which you served: Answer: Co. I, 54th Ind. No. 2. What was your post office at enlistment? Answer: Indianapolis, Ind. No. 3. State your wife's full name and her maiden name. Answer: Catherine Antrim No. 4. When, where, and by whom were you married? Answer: Santa Fe New Mexico. In the later part of 1872 or first part of 1873. No. 5. Is there any official or church record of your marriage? Answer: Was married in Presbyterian Church. If so, where? Answer: At Santa Fe. I think it is on record in Church. No. 6. Were you previously married? If so, state the name of your former wife, the date of the marriage, and the date and place of her death or divorce. If there was more than one previous marriage, let your answer include all former wives. Answer: No. Was not maried before. No. 7. If your present wife was married before her marriage to you, state the name of her former husband, the date of each marriage, and the date and place of his death or divorce, and state whether he ever rendered any military or naval service, and if so, give name of the organization in which he served. If she was married more than once before her marriage to you, let your answer include all former husbands. Answer: This is not of my own knoledge. She was married to McCarty, date not nown - died in New York City, date not nown. No other marage. No military service that I no of. No. 8. Are you now living with your wife, or had there been a separation? Answer: My wife died about the 13th of Sept 1874 of tuberculosis in Silver City, New Mexico. No. 9. State the names and dates of birth of all your children, living or dead. Answer: We had no children. My wife had two boys, one died in the eighteys & the other I have not herd from in 14 teen years. Date: April 2nd 1915 Signature: William H. Antrim
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2021 1:02:59 GMT -5
There are implied facts in the affidavit of DeWitt Travis. Census and cemetery records provide information about the life of DeWitt Travis. The WWI draft registration card of Elbert DeWitt Travis shows he was born 26 March 1890. Billy the Kid was killed several years before he was born. DeWitt never saw or met Billy the Kid. He believed Brushy Bill's claim that he was Billy the Kid. That means that the affidavit of DeWitt Travis does not support Brushy Bill's claim that he was Billy the Kid. DeWitt Travis further stated that he had known Brushy Bill for most of his life. DeWitt Travis and Oliver P. Roberts were both counted in the 1910 census of Van Zandt County. DeWitt's sworn statement that he had known Brushy Bill most of his life implies that DeWitt Travis had known Oliver P. Roberts most of his life. That means that Brushy Bill was Oliver P. Roberts, just as his niece, Geneva Roberts Pittmon, and his other relative, Roy Haws, said. Did Roy Haws talk about how in 1920 Oliver P. list his birth year as 1860?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2021 1:06:38 GMT -5
There are implied facts in the affidavit of DeWitt Travis. Census and cemetery records provide information about the life of DeWitt Travis. The WWI draft registration card of Elbert DeWitt Travis shows he was born 26 March 1890. Billy the Kid was killed several years before he was born. DeWitt never saw or met Billy the Kid. He believed Brushy Bill's claim that he was Billy the Kid. That means that the affidavit of DeWitt Travis does not support Brushy Bill's claim that he was Billy the Kid. DeWitt Travis further stated that he had known Brushy Bill for most of his life. DeWitt Travis and Oliver P. Roberts were both counted in the 1910 census of Van Zandt County. DeWitt's sworn statement that he had known Brushy Bill most of his life implies that DeWitt Travis had known Oliver P. Roberts most of his life. That means that Brushy Bill was Oliver P. Roberts, just as his niece, Geneva Roberts Pittmon, and his other relative, Roy Haws, said. He said his father knew Billy's father and yes Dewitt's Father did fight for the Southern side during the Civil War. The importance of all this is missed by your focusing on it like he just says that Brushy is without proof. He states that his father and mother knew Brushy's parents and then that Brushy taught him how to swim and that is when he noticed all of the scars that Brushy had. 26 that matched the Kid's exactly.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 1, 2021 11:01:34 GMT -5
There are implied facts in the affidavit of DeWitt Travis. Census and cemetery records provide information about the life of DeWitt Travis. The WWI draft registration card of Elbert DeWitt Travis shows he was born 26 March 1890. Billy the Kid was killed several years before he was born. DeWitt never saw or met Billy the Kid. He believed Brushy Bill's claim that he was Billy the Kid. That means that the affidavit of DeWitt Travis does not support Brushy Bill's claim that he was Billy the Kid. DeWitt Travis further stated that he had known Brushy Bill for most of his life. DeWitt Travis and Oliver P. Roberts were both counted in the 1910 census of Van Zandt County. DeWitt's sworn statement that he had known Brushy Bill most of his life implies that DeWitt Travis had known Oliver P. Roberts most of his life. That means that Brushy Bill was Oliver P. Roberts, just as his niece, Geneva Roberts Pittmon, and his other relative, Roy Haws, said. Did Roy Haws talk about how in 1920 Oliver P. list his birth year as 1860? Put your glasses on and look again at the 1920 census of Van Zandt County, TX, microfilm page 26a, line 43, where Olliver P Roberts, age 41, is living in the household of James C and Allie Murph. (1920-41=1879)
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Post by leeb on Jul 1, 2021 12:16:02 GMT -5
Could someone tell me where it's documented that BTK did indeed have 26 scars on his body and more importantly where they was located so they matched those that brushy had. BTK had only one noted wound to his left thigh. Just asking.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2021 15:14:47 GMT -5
Did Roy Haws talk about how in 1920 Oliver P. list his birth year as 1860? Put your glasses on and look again at the 1920 census of Van Zandt County, TX, microfilm page 26a, line 43, where Olliver P Roberts, age 41, is living in the household of James C and Allie Murph. (1920-41=1879) Okay yes my bad on that one. Yes, my fault I apologize. I got the year wrong. I just remembered there was a year that Oliver P. put down that he was older than he was supposed to be I think. My apologies. My sincerest apologies there was a different Oliver P. Roberts that's house had almost the exact same names, in which that Oliver P. list his birthyear as 1860. 1900 United States Federal Census - Ancestr....pdf (48.48 KB) My bad. We are all human.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2021 15:16:17 GMT -5
Could someone tell me where it's documented that BTK did indeed have 26 scars on his body and more importantly where they was located so they matched those that brushy had. BTK had only one noted wound to his left thigh. Just asking. One place is the Dewitt Travis affidavit and likely in the evidence that Morrison gave Governor Mabry, which was destroyed, except for the affidavits.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2021 15:21:33 GMT -5
Could someone tell me where it's documented that BTK did indeed have 26 scars on his body and more importantly where they was located so they matched those that brushy had. BTK had only one noted wound to his left thigh. Just asking. It is written in numerous history books that Billy was shot in the hip while trying to retrieve a gun off of Brady's body or papers. The others well the ones Brushy described in the gunfight, and several others recorded in books, by different authors.
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Post by leeb on Jul 1, 2021 15:51:01 GMT -5
Oops, there's no records whatsoever.
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