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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 15:06:44 GMT -5
There is soooooo many inconsistencies from all the parties involved that night, that it makes one draw to a few conclusions:
1) The Kid didn't really die that night in Fort Sumner
2) Garrett and his men went ABOVE & BEYOND the bounds of law & justice to get it (The Kid's death) done
The latter part, could be the truth, because several people living in Fort Sumner claimed that Garrett and his men threatened them, and told them all to say a certain version of the truth (their version). And these threats, etc. could have potentially started the idea/notion that the Kid was still alive and Garrett was covering his ass for the mistake.
Of course, I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible, so that's why I give multiple scenarios. I'm of the opinion that the Kid lived on after Fort Sumner, and lived on as Brushy Bill Roberts--- however--- I am open minded enough to speculate that maybe Roberts wasn't The Kid, but that he was either a relative OR he was a witness on that night in Fort Sumner and rode with The Kid. I mean, after all, it is interesting to note that when William V. Morrison met Brushy, the first words out of his mouth was that he had a 'half-brother' living in Mexico and that he was The Kid. So who knows.
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Post by Dave Snell Tucson on Feb 26, 2016 15:17:07 GMT -5
It is foolish to create a romance between Paulita and BtK without at least some casual, passing deference to the strict Mexican courtship customs in place at the time. I would seriously doubt that BtK e v e r saw Paulita without a doña breathing down his neck.
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Post by clydec on Feb 26, 2016 16:59:50 GMT -5
I don't think Paulita was his girlfriend! I think it was as Brushy said, it was Celsa Gutierrez.
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Post by clydec on Feb 26, 2016 17:02:18 GMT -5
I have heard also that before she died Deluvina Maxwell changed her story and admitted that Garrett had killed the wrong man and they had covered it up to let Billy get away! Anybody else here this and is there any truth to it?
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Post by Wayne Land on Feb 27, 2016 11:34:51 GMT -5
I don't remember the names of the interviewers or the dates it happened, but I've seen seemingly accurate reports that Deluvina was interviewed at least twice after the killing. As I understand it, she first claimed she was the first one in the room that night to find the Kid's body on the floor, that she picked up his gun and put it in the drawer (why she would do that, I have no idea!). However, in the second interview some years later, she supposedly denied that she had ever seen the Kid's body that night. Still others say she was there that night and that she yelled at Garrett, "You've killed my boy" or something close to that while pounding his chest with her fists. There are also stories that she had a son and that he disappeared around that time and was never heard from again.
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Post by nmjames on Feb 27, 2016 12:27:35 GMT -5
clydec & Wayne
In a Field & Stream magazine, July 1981, Page 109 you can find the story about a persistent rumor in New Mexico about Deluvina Maxwell amending her story. In the book The Real Billy the Kid by Miguel Otero, page 116 you can see the story about Deluvina going into the room the night Billy was killed. This came from Otero visiting with Deluvina in 1926 about a year before she passed away on 27 Nov. 1927.
Wayne the story you are talking about where Deluvina was said to have denied that she had even seen the Kid;s body that night is from a interview with J. E. Haley. I don't remember the date but have it in one of my files.
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Post by clydec on Feb 27, 2016 15:05:57 GMT -5
So, it sounds like she changed her story a few times just as Poe and McKinney did. I have always thought that if someone tells you something and they change there story after they are lying and don't want you to know the truth. Funny thing is old Brushy stuck to his story the whole way through!
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Post by clydec on May 21, 2016 19:36:47 GMT -5
So, If I read this correctly, it may have been Deluvina's actual son that was killed instead of Billy!
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Post by Wayne Land on May 22, 2016 12:13:04 GMT -5
It has been suggested. But I don't know if that is based on any provable fact. I read somewhere that Deluvina was pounding on Garrett's chest afterwards and yelling, "You've killed my boy".
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Post by clydec on May 22, 2016 18:01:34 GMT -5
That's interesting Wayne. Maybe Deluvina was the woman whose reputation they were protecting. I know she thought of Billy as a son. Is there much information out there about her son and what happened to him?
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Post by Wayne Land on May 23, 2016 11:17:39 GMT -5
Very little. The thinking I've read was that he was illegitimate. In my mind, that maybe explains why there's not much mention of him. Maybe someone else can tell us more about him. Evidence against him being the one who was shot by Garrett was mentioned being that he was pretty young to have been mistaken for Billy. I forget what age he would have been at the time but I think it was like 12 or something. Which doesn't jive at all with the story that the fella who was shot had a beard. You must excuse my lack of facts.
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Post by clydec on May 23, 2016 18:14:35 GMT -5
Thanks Wayne. I find it interesting that the new billy croquet picture has been verified to be him with only an 81 percent match to the tintype, while brushy's pictures matched up 93 and almost 100 percent to the tintype.
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Post by Nik Oak on Jun 10, 2016 11:11:28 GMT -5
How sure are we that Deluvinas son was too young to have been the person killed by Garrett?
It seems to me that if it was deluvinas son it would explain an awfull lot of the circumstances surrouining the incident. Deluvina saying to Garrett "You've killed my little boy," her having a marker put on the grave with "Sleep well beloved" on it, also she was heard to refer to the victim as "That sweet child sleeps in peace" seem very much more than you would expect someone to say if he wasn't her son.
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Post by nmjames on Jun 12, 2016 13:48:55 GMT -5
Nik Oak
Your statement "That sweet child sleeps in peace" can be found on pages 195 and 196 in the book The Saga of Billy the Kid by Walter Noble Burns and it is about Billy the Kid.
As for Deluvina Maxwell ever having a child, I have read she never had any children and on every census she is listed as single. How ever on a 1870 Census in Colfax, New Mexico Territory there is a Delahemia Maxwell age 25 with a Filippi Maxwell age 2 living in the house. On the 1880 Census you do not find him with Deluvina. I feel if this was Deluvina on the 1870 Census, she may have been keeping a child for someone.
I did find a Phillip Maxwell that lived until 1913 that may have been the Filippi Maxwell on the 1870 census. He was born in New Mexico. His obituary state his father at one time owned a large land grant in Mexico. (Not New Mexico.)Phillip was about the correct age. His obituary was in Bill Barlow's Budget, 1913. Bill Barlow's Budget was a weekly paper published from about 1886 to 1914 in Wyoming.
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Post by montanas on Jun 12, 2016 21:19:11 GMT -5
Interesting, especially the paper's name. Bill Barlow. What name did Brushy say was the kid killed in his place? Billy Barlow
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