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Post by devorerd on Nov 15, 2023 9:16:35 GMT -5
Billybarlow official......Thanks for taking the bait....LOL..."And yes, Brushy did appear on "We The People" in New York City alongside J. Frank Dalton, after the "birthday" celebration in Missouri. It would be very cool if somebody could find either that footage or audio."...So, let's get to the facts about your statment that Brushy ""We The People" claiming to be a member of the James Gang, etc casts much doubt on the claim Brushy wasn't out for fame or money".. Please reference here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQYrXql6dCcIf you are time constrained, start at 2:00....If you have contraditory info Rufus, please enlighten us. I think it safe to say your theory that he was out for money and fame has absoutely zero merit, looking forward to your thoughts. Cheers.
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 15, 2023 11:44:17 GMT -5
Billybarlow official......Thanks for taking the bait....LOL..."And yes, Brushy did appear on "We The People" in New York City alongside J. Frank Dalton, after the "birthday" celebration in Missouri. It would be very cool if somebody could find either that footage or audio."...So, let's get to the facts about your statment that Brushy ""We The People" claiming to be a member of the James Gang, etc casts much doubt on the claim Brushy wasn't out for fame or money".. Please reference here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQYrXql6dCcIf you are time constrained, start at 2:00....If you have contraditory info Rufus, please enlighten us. I think it safe to say your theory that he was out for money and fame has absoutely zero merit, looking forward to your thoughts. Cheers. Here's the problem... Dalton was being pushed as Jesse James. Brushy was there at the Missouri event and NYC program in support of Dalton. Even if he never said he was a member of the James Gang, it gives the impression that he was because he was there with 2 other men claiming to be members of the James Gang even if he didn't say he was. Granted, newspapers do make mistakes. It is entirely reasonable that the writer meant the other man and not Roberts. I have had some experience with this myself in the past. I did an interview once with Marvin Camel the first cruiserweight boxing champion, and he wrote a book quoting me verbatim but he attributed the quote by mistake to my friend Frank Stea my co-host. So mistakes do happen. Your initial argument was that Brushy did not gain fame, or receive monetary gain. Well, technically that's simply not true. He went from being unheard of to being on newspapers across the country and appeared on a top three rated program in the United States of America. He was flown out, put up in a hotel, etc. He sure didn't pay for that himself. After all, according to Ola Everhard it was DeWitt Travis paying Brushy's bills. He was pretty much on the poverty line. So somebody paid his way there and accommodated him, because it surely wasn't himself. It most likely was the program. And the fact that it came prior to him coming out as Billy The Kid, does hurt him in retrospect. Why? Because it gives the impression of an old man who loved getting the attention, and considering it was put out there in the press that he was Billy The Kid and going to meet the governor, it gives the impression that Roberts was seeking fame or money. Had he succeeded in getting the pardon he would've been getting movie deals, etc. He would have been better off to have excused himself from being in the newspaper and the radio program entirely. I think you can at least concede that. That it would've looked better for him to have not been in that newspaper article and radio program. Now THAT BEING SAID... I brought this up to Mr. Edwards himself. And he said he will be making a video addressing this issue in the near future. I will be waiting for that video. So until then I will refrain from judgment. Perhaps he will clear up how the story got out to the press to begin with, etc. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 15, 2023 11:50:44 GMT -5
That is clearly a lot of unsubstantiated claims made by billybarlowofficial. Quote: "Clearly that can't be the truth if the press already caught wind of it, most likely by Morrison himself or Andress, to get attention for their client Brushy Bill Roberts" Since you are suggesting Morrison was a completely dishonest person who falsely claimed he tried to arrange for a private meeting but somehow secretely did exactly the opposite, why don't you show some evidence to back up your claim? Where is your proof? You got nothing but speculation. You say it was fishy to ask for a private meeting, I guess that means you believe it was equally fishy when Billy the kid asked for a private meeting with Governor Wallace? It's fishy if you didn't want historians, etc there present to cross examine your claims. When The Kid had his private meeting with Lew Wallace the circumstances were different. He was a wanted outlaw, etc. It had to be on the downlow otherwise he'd of gotten capped on his way there. With Brushy he had nothing to fear because Mabry stated in advance he would get safe passage there and no charges would be pressed even if he proved himself to be Billy The Kid. Two completely different set of circumstances. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by nmjames on Nov 15, 2023 11:53:19 GMT -5
billybarlowoffical, this may help some. Look for the El Paso Times, July 13, 1950, Thu. page 5. Lawyer Seeks Billy The Kid Information.
nmjames
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Post by RonBk on Nov 15, 2023 14:00:41 GMT -5
Most people involved in criminal proceedings would do anything to avoid media attention. It would also be perfectly normal for any crime suspect, convict or person otherwise involved in a criminal investigation to feel uncomfortable about the prospect of being cross examined by a large and hostile crowd and most people would try to avoid that kind of situation if possible. There is nothing "fishy" about that, it's standard human behaviour.
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 15, 2023 15:43:35 GMT -5
Most people involved in criminal proceedings would do anything to avoid media attention. It would also be perfectly normal for any crime suspect, convict or person otherwise involved in a criminal investigation to feel uncomfortable about the prospect of being cross examined by a large and hostile crowd and most people would try to avoid that kind of situation if possible. There is nothing "fishy" about that, it's standard human behaviour. No offense, but it seems to me that you are looking for any reason or excuse to just uphold the Brushy claim, regardless of how odd it seems that a claimant did not want cross-examined. It's as if you are saying, "There is no reason for cross-examinations because he had the affidavits," which is the same as saying, "He didn't do the crime we have an eyewitness. No need for further investigation." For me that's dishonest. You just don't get what you want until you cross off every single criterion needed to be considered the genuine article. Morrison, Brushy, and Andress did not meet that level of credibility which is why historians were asked to be present. Especially when you are telling a story that is completely counter to every known narrative at the time. You just don't walk in there with limited evidence and demand a pardon when you haven't successfully proven who you claim to be. You have to concede that this was such an unusual case or claim, not proven in a court of law, and tried to bypass every legal channel and scholarly expert to secure a pardon for a man thought to be dead for 70+ years. It is naive and gullible to assume that there would not be cross examinations under those circumstances. Unfortunately for team Brushy it backfired completely on them, thinking they were going to convince the governor 1 on 1 without any experts weighing in. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by nmjames on Nov 15, 2023 16:59:45 GMT -5
RonBk, I don't think it was a criminal proceeding. If Morrison wanted to avoid media attention who leaked it in El Paso and put the interview with Mrs. Martile Able on the 25th. Nov. 1950 and the one with Severo Gallegos on the 26th. in the El Paso Times? The interview with Gov. Mabry was not until the 29th or 30th.
Here is the quote from Brushy that I like. "I want to die a free man. They'll build a monument: to me down in Texas when I do die." (The Albuquerque Tribune, 30 Nov. 1950)
nmjames
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Post by RonBk on Nov 15, 2023 17:46:09 GMT -5
It certainly appears as if Governor Mabry thought that it was a criminal proceeding, why otherwise would he have brought armed officers to the meeting?
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Post by nmjames on Nov 15, 2023 19:27:58 GMT -5
RonBk, I would say it was SOP. You don't think the Governor would have protection? Why didn't Morrison go to meet with the Governor and lay out his case before he ever took Brushy with him?
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Post by billybarlowofficial on Nov 15, 2023 20:53:32 GMT -5
RonBk, I would say it was SOP. You don't think the Governor would have protection? Why didn't Morrison go to meet with the Governor and lay out his case before he ever took Brushy with him? I think it's pretty standard for there to be law enforcement at the governor's mansion or the state capital building, etc. Especially when you are claiming to be a famous outlaw personally wanting an audience with the governor. Precautionary, nothing more. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by RonBk on Nov 16, 2023 1:53:06 GMT -5
The way the meeting was set up by the governor made it appear like a criminal proceeding with the armed officers and the relatives of Billy the Kids victims and Mabry himself being the judge, but it's a matter of definition so lets leave it at that. Either way it was certainly a continuation of the criminal process of Billy the Kid so there is no way you can argue that it wouldn’t be a normal behavior for Billy himself to feel uneasy about the whole set up with the armed guards and the cross examination. Anyone would feel uncomfortable in that situation.
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Post by MissyS on Nov 16, 2023 7:06:02 GMT -5
I believe it was very important to Brushy to get his pardon so he can die a free man. I don’t believe Brushy or his lawyer intended for the meeting to have been leaked to the public because of the possibility that those other people could distract or coax or interfere with the decision of Governor Mabry. Also Brushy may have had to show his scars, if so he may not have wanted to do that in front of a room full of people? I don’t know what Brushy endured? If he was laughed at or mocked or if he was treated civil and respectful? But Brushy was willing to face anything he had to to get his pardon. If he was out for fame or attention then he would not have asked for a private meeting.
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Post by Bonzo on Nov 16, 2023 14:11:19 GMT -5
Start of the LCW..only Billy went to get the rifle from Brady. Middle LCW brushy was wrong about the buffalo soldiers. End of the LCW brushy was wrong there was no shoot out in Sumner..
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Post by devorerd on Nov 16, 2023 15:48:47 GMT -5
Start of the LCW..only Billy went to get the rifle from Brady. Middle LCW brushy was wrong about the buffalo soldiers. End of the LCW brushy was wrong there was no shoot out in Sumner.. Mr Bonzo..The title of the post is "Best Brushy Proof", you seem be on the other end of it, let's stay focused. Perhaps the books got it wrong and Brushy got it right because here there?
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Post by clydec on Nov 17, 2023 21:21:48 GMT -5
Start of the LCW..only Billy went to get the rifle from Brady. Middle LCW brushy was wrong about the buffalo soldiers. End of the LCW brushy was wrong there was no shoot out in Sumner.. Wow, you were there as an eyewitness to all of this. Please tell us all what really happened.
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