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Post by devinb on Aug 5, 2011 7:57:46 GMT -5
Greetings. I'm doing research for project on Brushy Bill, and I had a few questions to pose to the board:
(1) does anyone know if and online record exists of Brushy Bill as one of Teddy Roosevelt's "Rough Riders"?
(2) does anyone know if Brushy Bill and a wife and children down in old Mexico at about the time of the war down there... Did they perish?
(3) does anyone know, off hand, if there are any records of Brushy Bill's time as a law-enforcement officer?
Thx!
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 5, 2011 15:21:52 GMT -5
Do you have the book "The Real Billy The Kid, AKA Brushy Bill Roberts" by Brett Hall? If not, you can download it from iTunes. It might help you get some leads on some of that but don't take everything in it for granted. I had a hard copy that was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina but I'm considering ordering the iTunes version. I just today found it available there. I'm not saying Brett intentionally misstated anything, but the book has been accused of containing some erroneous information and I'm not sure what I believe in that regard. If nothing else, it might help you find where to start looking.
The problems with any such documentation on Brushy's exploits after 1881 is that he used many aliases to hide from authorities and we don't know what all those aliases were.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 13, 2011 0:46:16 GMT -5
Well, I decided to download Brett Hall's book to my iPhone. Possibly this endnote regarding Brushy's claims about the Rough Riders from Brett's book will help. I hope he doesn't mind if I quote it here!
"According to the National Archives Military Records Facility in St. Louis, Missouri, William H. Roberts of Texas was a Private in Troop L. He enlisted on May 14, 1898 at Muskogee, Oklahoma. He was described as being 39 years old, 5 feet 7 1/2 inches tall, light complexion, blue-gray eyes, and brown hair. He listed his place of birth as Texas, his occupation as rancher/farmer, and his marital status as single. According to Roberts military transcripts, he was assigned to train horses and riders of Troop D of the 10th Cavalry (a division of "Buffalo Soldiers") The Lieutenant Cook was most likely James S. Cook; who likewise was assigned to the 10th Cavalry Troop F and later Troop D. Roberts military transcript corroborates his testimony that he was discharged under less than honorable circumstances, although no specific details are given. He was not eligible to receive a pension and none was ever applied for."
Now that information has been questioned to the point of practically claiming Brett Hall fabricated it. In fact the Military Records Facility in St. Louis is not in St. Louis. Some years ago on another discussion board there was a great deal of back and forth on all this, including a debate about whether Roosevelt actually took any horses with him to Cuba and whether there were ever any white soldiers in that Buffalo troop. One person posted a photo of the black troop with a face in the crowd that looked white. Nothing was ever settled. I contacted Brett himself and asked how we could locate these records for ourselves. He answered he would have to dig it out and he would let me know. He never got back to me.
I don't think he fabricated the information, but it did prove impossible to track down. GOOD LUCK!
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Post by devinb on Aug 15, 2011 20:09:53 GMT -5
Thanks for your help!
I will download it to my iPhone and give it a read.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 16, 2011 18:45:48 GMT -5
Good! I think you'll enjoy it. There is no question the book includes more specific information than anything else I've seen on Brushy. Brett Hall obviously put a great deal of time into researching Brushy. Unfortunately, like everything else related to Brushy, there are unanswered questions regarding his research. Maybe you'll be the one to help answer those loose ends. I'd love to hear your ideas after you've read it.
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Post by lacowboy on Sept 9, 2011 20:10:17 GMT -5
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Post by lacowboy on Sept 9, 2011 20:18:50 GMT -5
I have that picture you spoke of Wayne. I don't know how to post it here.
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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 10, 2011 17:16:03 GMT -5
Wow! Thanks lacowboy. The link to the roster you provided does indeed contain the name W.H. Roberts as a member of Troop D. Brett Hall's information which had come under so much scrutiny (end note 171 in his book), says Brushy was assigned to Troop D to train horses and sure enough, there's the name.
If you'd like to upload that photo you can email it to me and I'll post it here, or you can do that yourself. Just use the "reply" button at the top of the page instead of the "quick reply" box at the bottom. You'll see "Attachment" where you can type in the address or easier, just use the "Browse" button to locate the file on your computer and upload it.
Thanks for the information.
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Post by lacowboy on Sept 10, 2011 19:42:34 GMT -5
Photo Attachments:
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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 12, 2011 19:05:59 GMT -5
This is a photo of "William" Pollock as appears in a book published about the Rough Riders in 1899. He is described as a Pawnee Indian. Brushy had a companion during those years he was with the Rough Riders. He called his companion "Indian Jim". Take a close look and then go on to the next message. Attachments:
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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 12, 2011 19:09:43 GMT -5
This photo is also in that book I mentioned in the previous post. It is labeled as "Five Bronco Busters". The one second from right is the exact stature and physique of Brushy. Zooming in on the face, there is nothing there that would indicate it is not him. The man in the center is darker skinned than the others and is of very similar appearance to "William Pollock" of the previous post. I am convinced this is a photo of Brushy and "Indian Jim" with three others while serving as scouts and bronc busters with the Rough Riders. Attachments:
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Post by koffeekup on Sept 22, 2011 14:33:25 GMT -5
Hi Wayne, I need your guiding hand. This is the latest post on the board so I thought I might raise you here. I am not doing Brushy, pro, or con. Like you I want to do some searching on the subject of BTK. Charles Sanders has done a great deal in the direction of the MO born BTK and I have myself found some interesting things I added to that of Charles Sanders. How can I find a spot here on this board to lay out information on the, I'll call him the "MO Billy? Now I am not trying to conflict with Classic NY born Billy, or Buffalo Gap, TX born BTK. I think more can be learned by true study, than by in argueing back and forth. Is there another "MO BTK" student out there? I should really like to compair notes. Thanks Koffee Kup" (Stolen from the Koffee Kup Kafe in Hico, Texas, home of one of the Brushy Billy museums)
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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 23, 2011 15:17:43 GMT -5
Hi KoffeeKup,
Love your screen name. I've been to the Koffee Kup Kafe and I can advise anyone who loves a good pie to definitely stop in there if they ever visit Hico. Great people and great pie. I bought an entire pie there and took it to Judge Bob Hefner's place where he and his wife, my wife and I, and Dr. Jannay Valdez had a memorable evening talking about Brushy. I hope Judge Hefner and his wife are both doing well. I haven't heard otherwise.
I appreciate your interest in MO BTK but I'm afraid I don't know much of anything about that. I also have a great respect for anyone who can dig through census records and such and find as much information as Charles Sanders can. I will say though, that I personally believe the written records such as census are not infallible and do not tell the whole story. Charles and I had some pretty good debates over on another message board or two a few years back. For certain, he's a genius with such research but I think it is wrong to take a position that "only" what is documented by census records and such is worth considering as possible truth.
All that said, I'd love to hear more of what you know about the possibility of BTK being from MO. I named this board after Brushy because there are other boards that have banned any discussion of him. I will never ban any BTK related discussion and would love to address all theories and research whether confirmed or not.
Please give us an outline of what you know about MO BTK. Thanks.
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Post by Thain Timmertberg on Oct 6, 2011 10:35:07 GMT -5
I've read through all of these post and just wanted to remind everyone that you can find info on the internet about the horses they took to Cuba on factual websites, well at least the one I saw. and just for fun incase there ain't nothing else to talk about here is a story about the MISSOURI BILLY THE KID. In high school my friend used to tell me that his family was related to Billy the Kid and claimed one of his grandma's or aunt's had a family photo with the name William Bonney on the back. I didn't believe him for one second since I knew a lot about the Kid already and everyone in Missouri (where I live) claims they are related to Jesse James including some of my family. Later, I heard there was a serious possibility that the Kid was from MISSOURI and I have been waiting to see this guy from highschool ever since to ask him about the photo and his family. Its probably nothing though, but still a good story.
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Post by crhfish on Jul 27, 2015 11:24:38 GMT -5
Hello, my first post to the board. I'm new to the Billy the Kid story after a recent trip to New Mexico. I became interested in Brushy Bill as a part of the whole story after remembering him during my working days when I had to drive the Hico on a regular basis. Anyway, I wanted to add that there was a William H Roberts in Company D of the 10th Calvary. I found the record where he mustered out in Montauk New York on August the 26th 1898. At first I thought this was strange until I read that the Rough Riders returned to Montauk during August of 1898. There they received medical attention if they needed any until they were ready for discharge. It appears from the records that the 10th Calvary returned with the 1st Calvary Rough Riders from Cuba. Why they landed in new York is a mystery so far.
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