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Post by kerry on Sept 12, 2020 16:26:39 GMT -5
With the passing of Lucien Maxwell -the family despite their wealth and position in Hispanic society-were essentially second class citizens...Lucien got out of Cimarron as best he could and a complete community followed him to Fort Sumner while his former land grant descended into the Colfax county war....when LCW reached Fort Sumner-no one was going to contradict Pat Garrett....especially not Pete Maxwell. Some spread the story that BTK was shot on the porch with a shotgun and thus was unidentifiable -just in case Pat's story came undone and they became a scapegoat for his fraudulent bounty claim and perversion of justice...
In time Pat became a legend and the whole matter obscure - but it was Pat's tangling with another Buffalo Gap boy- good with a gun and also called "Olie" that gained him respect as a Lawman- when he tried to resolve the Fountain murders... when he tried a "Stinking Springs" on Oliver Lee - it was Pat who lost a man and was effectively forced to surrender.There was no devine mid-night intervention that Poe believed was present at the Maxwell house 14 July 1881.
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Post by chivato88 on Sept 12, 2020 17:41:40 GMT -5
In short, it's a good possibility that everyone lied to cover up the fact that Garrett went above and beyond the law to kill Billy The Kid. Also, I was in the 98th percentile in literature and comprehension. I am fairly certain that I haven't tripped myself up when I write out a hypothesis, but in the future I will try to keep all my fancy words to no more than two or three syllables so you don't get confused. Yes, that was sarcasm, but since you are oftentimes sarcastic to most everyone on the board you shouldn't be surprised to get sarcasm back. In the future leeb it would be more beneficial for yourself if you were a bit more courteous and respectful to those you disagree with. We get it, you don't believe Brushy Bill Roberts claims. A lot of us don't on the forum, but we still get along. Instead of being argumentative (my bad that was five syllables, just kidding I know you can read I'm just messing with you) it would be better to create your own thread and fire off your own opinions on the various claims that Brushy Bill Roberts has made--- and don't get frustrated if people disagree or challenge your logic behind your post. That's part of the fun. It helps to make a stronger case by being cross examined and reviewing the strengths and weaknesses of your positions. Also, don't take this post the wrong way. Part of it is just giving you a hard time all in fun, and part of it is to hit back at you a tad bit so you know what it feels like. Still, I think all of us would like to get along with you but that's entirely up to you. If you want friends you have to show yourself as friendly. Lastly, I'm aware that I probably do rub people the wrong way with how I write and how passionate or long-winded I can be. I reckon part of it is a form of insecurity on my part, either wanting to be taken seriously or to be heard, but I think much of it is that's just the way I write and talk in general. In the future I'll try to keep responses shorter, and no that's not sarcasm this time around. I hope to see you post more often. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you and Jesus Christ Almighty God bless your family 😊 I don't get confused with long words Rufus and I'm a champion of sarcasm because it fits well in this forum. If you haven't noticed all I do is question? You can't change people's mindsets, I've no need to keep going round in circles. But trust historians not author's. Historians are not always right and accurate, in my book they re about 50-60 percent on the button, having historian written beside a name does not mean having last word on everything, they're only human and they can even be wrong about their research or their claims....
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Witnesses
Sept 12, 2020 17:43:06 GMT -5
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Post by kerry on Sept 12, 2020 17:43:06 GMT -5
Hi Rufus....would you consider Pat Garrett as a sort of Richard III type character?? His story is really a tragedy to me...
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Witnesses
Sept 12, 2020 19:29:59 GMT -5
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Post by kerry on Sept 12, 2020 19:29:59 GMT -5
WOW! Thanks for that Rufus....to me R3 and Pat both got their crown of the back of someone else....both unsuccessfully played the angles pushing a bow-wave of resentment in front of them until their powerful enemies were able to isolate and slaughter them....on the day -I think Pat would have given his Kingdom for a horse rather than a buckboard driven by Adamson...
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Post by MissyS on Jul 21, 2022 16:53:13 GMT -5
Wow! Where to even begin. The article is full of assumptions. It's almost all assumption. Plus some out and out false information. There is no evidence the body was put on public display at Beaver Smith's saloon. Witnesses said two things, neither of which involved Beaver Smith's saloon. It was said the body was taken to a "carpenter's shop" for a wake but it was also said the body stayed in Maxwell's home "all night". We don't know which of those is correct. Yes, there was a coroner's report (more than one actually) but there is at least some evidence it was written by Garrett and signed by the members of the jury even though they never saw the body other than when it was inside a "closed" coffin. There is also evidence one of the signers wasn't even in Ft. Sumner at the time. The bottom line is, the only people that definitely saw the body before it went in the coffin were Garrett, Poe, McKInney, Pete Maxwell, Deluvina Maxwell and Jesus Silva. If it is true the body was laid out in a carpenter's shop for a wake, then yes, it was likely seen by others but we don't even know for a fact that it wasn't already inside a closed coffin. Mr. Stahl might be tired of reading comments that the body might not have been the real BTK, but that doesn't change what the known facts are and his attempt to lay out a series of facts that he "wishes" were true doesn't change the real fact that we really just "don't know" exactly who saw the body other than the ones I mentioned. I stumbled upon this Paco Anaya set of documents and photo that sold at auction in 10/16/2017, In the lot there’s a short note with information about the funeral and interestingly where the wake was, according to it, it was neither in a carpenters shop nor in Maxwell’s room, nor a saloon, but at the home of Jesus Silva. auctionsouthwest.hibid.com/lot/35147221/a-p---paco--anaya-tintype--circa-1883/
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Post by PaddyRobertsTX on Jul 26, 2022 10:05:23 GMT -5
Hoping someone on here who has done some reading might be able to help me with a few names that have come up in these journals. Theres some references to Harralson, Cortese and a Charlie Timm. Theres also a reference to being owed money by Billy Davis (tough name to trace!) but hoping these may have appeared in someones digging over the years. Thanks!!!
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Post by cassandra jane on Jul 26, 2022 11:56:32 GMT -5
Hoping someone on here who has done some reading might be able to help me with a few names that have come up in these journals. Theres some references to Harralson, Cortese and a Charlie Timm. Theres also a reference to being owed money by Billy Davis (tough name to trace!) but hoping these may have appeared in someones digging over the years. Thanks!!! There are a few records (mainly births) of a Charlie Timn on the site I use. Depends which one fits the bill best but they’re as follows: 1) Charlie Timm, b. 14 November 1893, d. April 1964. Doubt this one is your man. 2) Charlie Timm, m. Ida Catherine Tiemann. Daughters: Dorse Lee Timm, b. Apr 17 1932; Dorothy Fay Timm, b. June 18 1940 - San Angelo, Tom Green, Texas. Son: Vernon Daley Timm, b. 7 November 1836. 3) Charlie Timm, b. Aug 23 1879, d. Sep 1973, Arlington, Minnesota. 4) Charles A Sr Timm, b. 1939 - Waukesha, Wisconsin, United States, d. Springfield, Illinois, United States. 5) Charlie Ludwig Timm, d. 27/12/1913 Wabasha County, Minnesota. 6) Carl Arnold (Charlie) Timm, d. 4 August 1996.
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Post by paddyrobertstx on Jul 26, 2022 13:17:26 GMT -5
Thanks! I've found a Charles Timm b 1851 d 1942 so potentially this could be the man I'm after!
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Witnesses
Jul 26, 2022 13:22:53 GMT -5
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Post by cassandra jane on Jul 26, 2022 13:22:53 GMT -5
Thanks! I've found a Charles Timm b 1851 d 1942 so potentially this could be the man I'm after! Have you got any other information on Harralson or Cortese like first names etc? I had a quick a look for Harralson at the sale time and found records covering Kentucky, Texas, Missouri and California but without specifics don’t know how much I can narrow it down.
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Post by paddyrobertstx on Jul 26, 2022 13:31:25 GMT -5
Sorry the first names are difficult to make out due to the condition of the books, it mentions Fort Sumner so.thats the place I'm looking. The Billy Davis bit mentions a fight over some money, if I decipher any more I'll.keep you posted. With the Timm piece we're some initials of J and AM but nothing more so that's gonna take code cracking!
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Post by cassandra jane on Jul 26, 2022 14:30:10 GMT -5
Sorry the first names are difficult to make out due to the condition of the books, it mentions Fort Sumner so.thats the place I'm looking. The Billy Davis bit mentions a fight over some money, if I decipher any more I'll.keep you posted. With the Timm piece we're some initials of J and AM but nothing more so that's gonna take code cracking! I don’t know if I’ve been this excited for anything except a new episode of Riverdale every week. Genuinely fascinated to hear if you uncover anything. If there’s a fight over money, my initial thought might have been the counterfeiting ring BTK and co were involved in.
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Post by paddyrobertstx on Jul 26, 2022 15:18:46 GMT -5
yeah i've got a busy few days coming up but will be spending some time at the weekend trying to put them in chronological order. some of them are definitely missing but theres some good timelines of continuity so fingers crossed!
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