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Post by MissyS on Jul 8, 2020 21:06:12 GMT -5
When reading about people connected to Billy the Kid and Brushy Bill I noticed a possible connection with both and Uvalde County TX. When Tom O’Folliard died Garrett’s posse went through his saddle bags and found an interesting letter written from Tom to his grandmother telling her that him and Billy were going to come visit her. Tom’s family was from Uvalde TX. It was also mentioned that he also told McKinney who was related to him to inform his grandmother of his death. I read on this board that John Abel according to a census was living in Uvalde County TX as well. Billy Wilson before coming to New Mexico was a resident of Uvalde TX, and afterward he was said to have run into Pat Garrett in Uvalde TX, and Pat helped get him a pardon. Could Billy/Brushy had visited Tom’s grandmother with Tom at other times before that and also had visited John Abel when he did, since he was in the same town? And could the two have met Billy Wilson there? www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/tom.htmlIt seems Uvalde County TX is a place that a few or more people in Billy’s/ Brushy’s life had connections with, and the town or county couldn’t have been very populated back in 1880’s?, so what are the odds these people were acquainted from there?, even Pat Garrett resided there. I think it might deserve more research into Uvalde County Texas and Brushy?
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Post by Elwood on Jul 9, 2020 8:20:45 GMT -5
When reading about people connected to Billy the Kid and Brushy Bill I noticed a possible connection with both and Uvalde County TX. When Tom O’Folliard died Garrett’s posse went through his saddle bags and found an interesting letter written from Tom to his grandmother telling her that him and Billy were going to come visit her. Tom’s family was from Uvalde TX. It was also mentioned that he also told McKinney who was related to him to inform his grandmother of his death. I read on this board that John Abel according to a census was living in Uvalde County TX as well. Billy Wilson before coming to New Mexico was a resident of Uvalde TX, and afterward he was said to have run into Pat Garrett in Uvalde TX, and Pat helped get him a pardon. Could Billy/Brushy had visited Tom’s grandmother with Tom at other times before that and also had visited John Abel when he did, since he was in the same town? And could the two have met Billy Wilson there? www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/tom.htmlIt seems Uvalde County TX is a place that a few or more people in Billy’s/ Brushy’s life had connections with, and the town or county couldn’t have been very populated back in 1880’s?, so what are the odds these people were acquainted from there?, even Pat Garrett resided there. I think it might deserve more research into Uvalde County Texas and Brushy? Ash Upson, ghost writer of the Billy the Kid book (by Pat Garrett) is buried in Ulvalde, Texas, in a cemetery lot provided by Pat Garrett.
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Post by MissyS on Jul 9, 2020 13:46:20 GMT -5
Interestingly I found a reference by Jesse James Benton entitled Cow by the Tail, pub. 1943; according to Burs under the Saddle it mentions the reference in Benton’s book that Billy the Kid was sometimes known as “Billy LeRoy” in Texas, and Benton said while quarantined with smallpox in the same room at Pete Maxwell’s that Billy was killed, he and a friend Gus White seeing a large blood stain on the floor had asked a Mexican boy about it, and he told them it was the blood of Billy the Kid, and they had never heard of Billy the Kid, the boy then told them some of the cowboys called him “Billy LeRoy” they both then remembered him as a man they knew in Texas and partnered with alot in the Panhandle. Benton claimed to have known Billy LeRoy very well, and first time seeing him was 1878 or 1879. He and Gus White had came up a trail together with a herd of cattle from a cattle ranch down in Uvalde County Texas, the herd was bound for some point in Kansas, Billy and Gus quit at Fort Mobeetie in the Panhandle where the author was working for a man named Odem. However in the book Burs under the Saddle by Ramon Frederick Adams doubted those claims and made a reference to an early dime novel entitled “Billy LeRoy” that was published by a Police Gazzette sixty years earlier that may have given the idea, and that the cattle being driven from Uvalde would have been hundreds of miles out of the way to get them to market in Kansas, and that Fort Mobeetie wasn’t a Fort though it was near Fort Elliott, so the claim of the cattle drive may not be true?, however I’m wondering if it could be possible that Billy could have just told them the cattle was going to Kansas knowing they would stop at Mobeetie and he would take them on to New Mexico because he didn’t want them knowing about his rustling operations? Anyway doubtful it may be it’s interesting.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 9, 2020 21:01:51 GMT -5
Interestingly I found a reference by Jesse James Benton entitled Cow by the Tail, pub. 1943; according to Burs under the Saddle it mentions the reference in Benton’s book that Billy the Kid was sometimes known as “Billy LeRoy” in Texas, and Benton said while quarantined with smallpox in the same room at Pete Maxwell’s that Billy was killed, he and a friend Gus White seeing a large blood stain on the floor had asked a Mexican boy about it, and he told them it was the blood of Billy the Kid, and they had never heard of Billy the Kid, the boy then told them some of the cowboys called him “Billy LeRoy” they both then remembered him as a man they knew in Texas and partnered with alot in the Panhandle. Benton claimed to have known Billy LeRoy very well, and first time seeing him was 1878 or 1879. He and Gus White had came up a trail together with a herd of cattle from a cattle ranch down in Uvalde County Texas, the herd was bound for some point in Kansas, Billy and Gus quit at Fort Mobeetie in the Panhandle where the author was working for a man named Odem. However in the book Burs under the Saddle by Ramon Frederick Adams doubted those claims and made a reference to an early dime novel entitled “Billy LeRoy” that was published by a Police Gazzette sixty years earlier that may have given the idea, and that the cattle being driven from Uvalde would have been hundreds of miles out of the way to get them to market in Kansas, and that Fort Mobeetie wasn’t a Fort though it was near Fort Elliott, so the claim of the cattle drive may not be true?, however I’m wondering if it could be possible that Billy could have just told them the cattle was going to Kansas knowing they would stop at Mobeetie and he would take them on to New Mexico because he didn’t want them knowing about his rustling operations? Anyway doubtful it may be it’s interesting. William "Billy Leroy" Pond and his brother Sam were lynched in Del Norte, CO. FAG #13646644
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Post by MissyS on Jul 10, 2020 9:20:05 GMT -5
Thanks Texas Truth Teller, I was trying to dig up what I could on “Billy Leroy”, it sounded to me reading the reference from Burs Under the Saddle that the Police Gazette had made up that fictional character, but he was real, what I’m digging up was his real name was Arthur Pond and his area of operation was Colorado, I don’t know if he ever came into New Mexico or the Texas Panhandle, so I wonder just how often Billy Leroy was confused with Billy the Kid Bonney in New Mexico? Sister Blandina Segale is believed to have been speaking about Billy Leroy instead of Billy the Kid in her memoirs in the book “At the end of the Santa Fe Trail” where she made friends with Billy the Kid and visited him in jail and when a member of his gang was near death & four doctors refused to treat him, she nursed him back to health and talked Billy the Kid out of getting revenge on the doctors that refused to treat his friend, an amazing story, so if it was really Billy Leroy and not Billy the Kid Bonney she was referring to makes me wonder if Billy Leroy went by Billy the Kid at some point? The Police Gazette may have also confused the two in their stories of Billy Leroy, and that confusion could have helped to booster Billy the Kid’s attention to the New Mexico newspapers? Also there’s a postcard of a group of men and one is identified as being a young Billy the Kid that said to have formed a gun club with five cronies, it may have been taken in Dodge City?, but I wonder if it could have been Billy Leroy in that postcard? I haven’t been able to find any photos of Billy Leroy, I wonder if a Police Gazette would have one?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 10, 2020 12:41:34 GMT -5
Photos, and new facts about the life of Billy the Kid are scarce as hens teeth. Speculation has been rampant since July 1881.
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Post by Elwood on Jul 10, 2020 12:57:08 GMT -5
Interestingly I found a reference by Jesse James Benton entitled Cow by the Tail, pub. 1943; according to Burs under the Saddle it mentions the reference in Benton’s book that Billy the Kid was sometimes known as “Billy LeRoy” in Texas, and Benton said while quarantined with smallpox in the same room at Pete Maxwell’s that Billy was killed, he and a friend Gus White seeing a large blood stain on the floor had asked a Mexican boy about it, and he told them it was the blood of Billy the Kid, and they had never heard of Billy the Kid, the boy then told them some of the cowboys called him “Billy LeRoy” they both then remembered him as a man they knew in Texas and partnered with alot in the Panhandle. Benton claimed to have known Billy LeRoy very well, and first time seeing him was 1878 or 1879. He and Gus White had came up a trail together with a herd of cattle from a cattle ranch down in Uvalde County Texas, the herd was bound for some point in Kansas, Billy and Gus quit at Fort Mobeetie in the Panhandle where the author was working for a man named Odem. However in the book Burs under the Saddle by Ramon Frederick Adams doubted those claims and made a reference to an early dime novel entitled “Billy LeRoy” that was published by a Police Gazzette sixty years earlier that may have given the idea, and that the cattle being driven from Uvalde would have been hundreds of miles out of the way to get them to market in Kansas, and that Fort Mobeetie wasn’t a Fort though it was near Fort Elliott, so the claim of the cattle drive may not be true?, however I’m wondering if it could be possible that Billy could have just told them the cattle was going to Kansas knowing they would stop at Mobeetie and he would take them on to New Mexico because he didn’t want them knowing about his rustling operations? Anyway doubtful it may be it’s interesting. William "Billy Leroy" Pond and his brother Sam were lynched in Del Norte, CO. FAG #13646644 Billy Leroy and Billy the Kid were often confused. There was a booklet compiled about Billy Leroy, which also had a person similar to Tom O'Folliard in it; helping to confuse the two Billy's. Here it is: Billy Leroy booklet
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Post by Elwood on Jul 10, 2020 16:11:30 GMT -5
William "Billy Leroy" Pond and his brother Sam were lynched in Del Norte, CO. FAG #13646644 Billy Leroy and Billy the Kid were often confused. There was a booklet compiled about Billy Leroy, which also had a person similar to Tom O'Folliard in it; helping to confuse the two Billy's. Here it is: Billy Leroy bookletThe 66-page booklet was: "Billy LeRoy, the Colorado Bandit, King of American Highwaymen " by Thomas F. Daggett , 1881. You can read it online or download it free: Billy LeRoy, the Colorado Bandit, King of American Highwaymen
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 10, 2020 17:26:44 GMT -5
Billy Leroy and Billy the Kid were often confused. There was a booklet compiled about Billy Leroy, which also had a person similar to Tom O'Folliard in it; helping to confuse the two Billy's. Here it is: Billy Leroy bookletThe 66-page booklet was: "Billy LeRoy, the Colorado Bandit, King of American Highwaymen " by Thomas F. Daggett , 1881. You can read it online or download it free: Billy LeRoy, the Colorado Bandit, King of American HighwaymenAdditional Information From the Colton Storm catalogue: "Originally written about a Colorado bandit, "Billy LeRoy", was advertised in the "National Police Gazette" as a life of Billy the Kid. Some of the new Mexico episodes resemble events in the life of the kid – but not closely."
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Post by MissyS on Jul 10, 2020 23:13:30 GMT -5
Thank You Elwood and Texas Truth Teller with that link and info, There’s a sketch of Leroy Pond on one of the first pages of the book on that link, and to me it does have similarity to a few questionable images Iv seen of Billy the Kid, it has a little resemblance to me of the two gun Billy photo. It’s evident the Police Gazette didn’t do a good job focusing on Billy Leroy’s life, for whatever reason the writer incorporated a little of Billy the Kid’s exploits, there’s even a Dave Rudabaugh included in the story linked. It could be that after Billy and his gang were arrested at Stinking Springs many newspapers were covering it and the Police Gazette wanted to cash in on the attention, and so intentionally incorporated some of the real Billy the Kid? From another thread from this board, I believe Oluckyman had posted a few months ago links from a newspaper article he discovered about a not well known interview of Billy the Kid in the Santa Fe jail, and he was visited by a journalist from a Gazette, and Billy had made a comment to him that he was getting a bad reputation, and the Journalist suggested since he had so much advertising that he could get up a show like Buffalo Bill. I think the dime novels made an impact on his reputation as a “Badman” to some extent, I’m wondering if it had enough impact for Governor Lew Wallace to want to change his mind on Billy’s amnesty? It’s interesting that Jesse James Benton had confused the two, and I wonder if it’s possible the real Billy the Kid could have worked with him and Gus White in the Texas Panhandle herding some cattle from Uvalde?
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Post by Elwood on Jul 11, 2020 9:23:52 GMT -5
Billy Leroy and Billy the Kid were often confused. There was a booklet compiled about Billy Leroy, which also had a person similar to Tom O'Folliard in it; helping to confuse the two Billy's. Here it is: Billy Leroy bookletThe 66-page booklet was: "Billy LeRoy, the Colorado Bandit, King of American Highwaymen " by Thomas F. Daggett , 1881. You can read it online or download it free: Billy LeRoy, the Colorado Bandit, King of American Highwaymen Billy LeRoy book in easier formatFor those who haven't read many books online at archive.org , on this link, just click on the upper left corner area that has the 3 horizontal lines, and then "Settings", and then "Zoom". Then, click back on the page of the book, and it should center on the page. From there, just use the arrows on the bottom right of the page to go back and forth in the book.
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Post by John Boessenecker on Jun 11, 2022 19:15:16 GMT -5
Regarding the questions above, Billy LeRoy, whose true name was Arthur Pond, had no connection with Billy the Kid. For the true story of Billy LeRoy, see the 1992 book by me and my co-author, the late Mark Dugan, entitled The Grey Fox: The True Story of Bill Miner, Last of the Old-Time Bandits.
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