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Post by Wayne Land on Dec 9, 2019 16:44:11 GMT -5
I don't mean to alter the direction of this thread or cause any undue alarm about all this, but I have a question for the participants. It seems there is a foregone conclusion in all this that Dalton's claim of being Jesse James has been proven fraudulent. My question for those who think so is, how and why is that the case? Don't misunderstand. I am solidly in the camp of Dalton doubters here. But I haven't seen anything that "proves" he was a fraud and most of this thread is centering around the idea that we need to show how Brushy could have been friends with a fraud without being a fraud himself.
I know there was an exhumation of the James grave that claimed to find a DNA match but that was "not" conclusive simply because the tooth they extracted DNA from might not have come from the body in Jesse's grave. I'm probably missing something that proves Dalton was a fraud. Can someone succinctly share that so I can mark that question off my list?
Thanks for a great thread and some very eye opening discussions.
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Post by Wayne Land on Dec 9, 2019 21:30:20 GMT -5
Thanks Rufus. I was unaware of most of that evidence against Dalton. Much appreciated.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Dec 10, 2019 23:04:10 GMT -5
"If I am not mistaken, Brushy Bill Roberts moved from Gladewater to Hico in 1938, so it's possible that the two men left the area at virtually the same timeframe. "
Both Frank Dalton and Ollie "Brushy Bill"Roberts were residents of Gladewater in 1935, according to the 1940 census. By 1940, Frank Dalton had moved from Gladewater to Longview, still in Gregg County. Ollie still lived in Gladewater in April 1940. Brushy's wife, Lutecia Ballard Roberts, died 22 June 1944 near Grand Saline, Van Zandt County, Texas Ollie Roberts of Grand Saline was the informant and signed her death certificate.
Elbert DeWitt Travis registered for the WWII draft in Longview, Gregg County, TX, in 1942.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Dec 10, 2019 23:08:30 GMT -5
"#4- Rare book dealer Ed Bartholomew notes that Orvus Lee Houck began working with Dalton around 1939. By 1949 he was living, temporarily, at the Meramec Caverns in a log cabin in Missouri. Prior to this, however, he was living at the Roper Hotel in Granbury Texas, and ended up passing away in the same place. "
Dalton died and is buried in Granbury. The Roper Hotel is in Marble Falls.
"While a resident of the Roper Hotel in Marble Falls, Texas, in the 1940s, J. Frank Dalton (d. 1951) claimed to be U. S. Marshall Frank Dalton, a brother of members of the outlaw Dalton Gang and a touring member of Wild Bill Hickok’s Wild West show. The real Frank Dalton was believed to have died around the turn of the 20th century.
After moving to Lawton, Oklahoma, Dalton assumed the identity of outlaw Jesse James, believed to have died in 1882. He claimed that the man buried in James’ grave was Charley Bigelow, a James associate who had been living in his house. Dalton’s stories were supported by several newspapers, but disputed by the James family heirs, historians, and a Missouri circuit court ruling. In 1995, an exhumation of James’ Kearny, Missouri, grave and DNA testing of its corpse refuted Dalton’s claims. Nevertheless, Dalton remains buried under a tombstone reading “Jesse Woodson James, Sept. 5, 1847-August 15, 1951. Supposedly killed in 1882.”"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 23:41:27 GMT -5
Can you do me a favor Texas?
Can you list the places & years where Brushy Bill Roberts lived, from alleged birth to death? That way I can look at plat maps of various areas.
Jesus bless you and your family
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Dec 11, 2019 0:35:09 GMT -5
Can you do me a favor Texas? Can you list the places & years where Brushy Bill Roberts lived, from birth to death? That way I can look at plat maps of various areas. Jesus bless you and your family 1880, Bates Twp, Sebastian Co, AR 1900, Precinct 7, Hopkins Co, TX 1910, Precinct 1, Van Zandt Co, Tx 1918, Arkinda, Little River Co, AR 1920. Van Zandt Co, TX, Precinct 1 (bOARDER IN THE HOME OF HIS FUTURE STEP-DAUGHTER) 1930 Van Zandt Co, TX, Precinct 1 1935, Gregg Co, TX, Gladewater
1940, Gregg Co, TX, Gladewater
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 1:30:15 GMT -5
Can you do me a favor Texas? Can you list the places & years where Brushy Bill Roberts lived, from birth to death? That way I can look at plat maps of various areas. Jesus bless you and your family 1880, Bates Twp, Sebastian Co, AR 1900, Precinct 7, Hopkins Co, TX 1910, Precinct 1, Van Zandt Co, Tx 1918, Arkinda, Little River Co, AR 1920. Van Zandt Co, TX, Precinct 1 (bOARDER IN THE HOME OF HIS FUTURE STEP-DAUGHTER) 1930 Van Zandt Co, TX, Precinct 1 1935, Gregg Co, TX, Gladewater
1940, Gregg Co, TX, Gladewater
Thanks, much appreciated. I think by 1945 he was in Hamilton County Texas (Hico) because he married Melinda I think in November of 1944 and prior to that time he's listed as being in Van Zandt because he signed off on his wife's death certificate. Maybe they were separated, I don't know, because he did marry Melinda four months after his wife's death. I do know that the picture of him standing next to Dalton was dated 1942 in Longview on DeWitt Travis's ranch. So, we have at least substantiated a relationship from roughly 1935-1950, though it's possible it goes back even farther, especially since DeWitt Travis apparently knew Dalton for some time. Travis would claim that his mother was a childhood friend of Dalton's and that Dalton apparently saved her and her family from invading Union forces in Missouri. Hence why he maintained that Dalton was Jesse James. Clearly, he was also a major storyteller because Elbert DeWitt Travis' mother was born in Arkansas in 1851 and came to Texas as a child. He himself was born in 1889, yet called himself "Bill Dalton" from time to time. His father, who was his namesake, was from Mississippi born 1849. To further make the stories more ridiculous he claimed that Brushy and his mother were friends from childhood, yet he later contradicted himself saying he knew Roberts since he was a teenager. The two just don't mesh well together. So whenever people bring up the DeWitt Travis affidavit, acting as if it's credible, I cringe a bit. If anything it only makes Roberts case all the more worse. That's why, at best, the only affidavits worth anything are Severo Gallegos and Martile Able, and Joe Salazar confirming that his father believed Billy The Kid was alive after 1881 and that Brushy Bill Roberts passed Joe's acid test as being the man his grandfather claimed to have met in the 1920s & 1930s who he thought was The Kid. Of course these affidavits, too, are questionable. There's no real independent proof that Martile or her husband actually knew the real Billy The Kid. Severo Gallegos, initially was skeptical & was relying on memories from nearly 70 years ago. Salazar, interesting as his story is, cannot concretely prove that the man his grandfather said was The Kid was in fact Roberts. So what is left? His appearance and some facts and figures he knew about that was essentially a rarity in his time. I think both can be explained without saying that he was Billy The Kid. He was living in a time, in a state, that was chalk full of people claiming to be someone they wasn't all in the same general time period. So his claim, retrospectively, isn't exactly world shattering because there was numerous person's. Jesus bless you and your family |
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Post by Jimmy on Nov 21, 2020 12:29:41 GMT -5
I don't mean to alter the direction of this thread or cause any undue alarm about all this, but I have a question for the participants. It seems there is a foregone conclusion in all this that Dalton's claim of being Jesse James has been proven fraudulent. My question for those who think so is, how and why is that the case? Don't misunderstand. I am solidly in the camp of Dalton doubters here. But I haven't seen anything that "proves" he was a fraud and most of this thread is centering around the idea that we need to show how Brushy could have been friends with a fraud without being a fraud himself. I know there was an exhumation of the James grave that claimed to find a DNA match but that was "not" conclusive simply because the tooth they extracted DNA from might not have come from the body in Jesse's grave. I'm probably missing something that proves Dalton was a fraud. Can someone succinctly share that so I can mark that question off my list? Thanks for a great thread and some very eye opening discussions. |
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