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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2021 0:57:28 GMT -5
Is it hearsay??? Most of the kids story is as we all know. But I don't think you can say that 35 witnesses were involved in nothing more than Chinese whispers Hearsay? Brushy Bill’s entire story is hearsay. Has any event in his story been corroborated? Even his description of events in Lincoln County, almost identical to information found in “The Saga of Billy the Kid”, is not proof that Brushy was there. None of his incredible exploits are supported by records or credible evidence. The sworn affidavits of DeWitt Travis, Robert E Lee, and Martile Able stating that he was Billy the Kid are a farce. What about Severos Gallegos and Jose B. Montoya? Why did the body not match that of Billy the Kid. Hearsay? John P. Meadows account, Walter Noble Burns's account, Patrick F. Garret's account, Donald Cline's in particular and basically all of these anti-Brushy people's accounts are rife with contradiction and hearsay and made up tales mixed with a little bit of truth. If anything Brushy's account of what happened is the most concise and makes the most sense. Not a farce on other affidavits. They provided concise testimony and they did not claim to know him at the time he was Billy the Kid. Martile Able knew Billy the Kid well. There is no reason for her to lie. Travis and Robert E. Lee did not say they knew him during his time as Billy the Kid, just that it was a secret among them that he was. Dewitt Travis's father and Brushy's father served with the James boys during the Civil War. It is likely that Wild Henry Roberts knew Belle Reed and the Younger Brothers as well. Might have even gave them a place to stay at times. Hell, Brushy could have even known Dave Rudabaugh as young as 10 years old. His father likely knew him, because Rudabaugh knew Belle Reed. They were in and out of that part of Texas and Indian Territory.
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Post by CP on Sept 11, 2021 9:36:20 GMT -5
An impressive list indeed. Here's the problem. The vast majority of what is written in that article is hearsay. Let me explain why. We know Pat Garrett, Kip McKinney, John Poe and Peter Maxwell saw the body. They were there when the shooting occurred. Did they all have reason to lie about who was shot that night? Yes! So, if those 4 men, along with possibly Deluvina and Celsa and Jesus Silva all agreed to lie about who it was and the body, as has been claimed in some reports, was kept out of sight and buried in a closed coffin early the next morning, then all these folks referred to were only repeating a lie they had been told. In the article there are a number of claims that certain individuals "saw the body" or "viewed the body" but no direct quotes of exactly what they said. Therefore, the claim they said it is "itself" a case of hearsay. Example, one report says the body was taken to a nearby carpenter shop and laid out for viewing, etc. while Judge Segura reported he found the body in Maxwell's home. Considering the distance he had to travel, there is no way he could have seen it "before" it was moved to the carpenter's shop. This certainly brings into question whether the move to the carpenter's shop ever really happened or was just part of the cover story. How many people could have participated in such a cover up? The answer is, as many as believed and repeated the lie they were told. Even though they participated "unknowingly". Let's pretend for a moment I was in Ft. Sumner the night of the shooting, someone tells me BTK had been shot and the following morning I witness someone being buried in a closed coffin. Then later I'm questioned about it and I say "yes, I was there when they buried the kid". Then the person who heard me say that is questioned and he/she says, "yes, I spoke to Wayne and he said he saw the kid buried". Then someone else passes the quote on as "Wayne said he saw the kid before they buried him". All "hearsay". I didn't lie, but I did unknowingly participate in spreading the lie. From the article: EPILOGUE - "Contrary to conspiracy theorists, Billy the Kid imposters and their supporters, Billy Bonney’s death was not followed by Sheriff Garrett hiding the body from outsiders. Garrett’s intention was to let people see whom he had shot and to let those who desired pay their final respects to this much–liked young man. The fact that Garrett, Poe and McKinney remained the rest of the night in the Maxwell house for fear that a few of the Kid’s close friends might harm them should not be overlooked, as there would have been no concern if his friends knew the body was someone other than Billy Bonney." My answer: How does he know what Garrett's "intention" was? Did he interview Garrett? Garrett wasn't hiding because he feared Billy's friends would avenge him. He was hiding (with the body) to avoid being discovered in another errant shooting and going to jail for murder. But even if it is correct that they stayed at Maxwell's out of fear they might be harmed, that doesn't mean the body wasn't Billy's. Everyone in town had been told it "was" Billy. Therefore the motivation to avoid possible revenge would still be in play. The fact that the author says he believes one way, and I say I believe another does not make either of us correct or our statements accurate. In the final analysis, my reasons for believing Brushy was truly BTK have nothing to do with all that. I believe he was because he looked like him, had a number of physical traits that matched perfectly and had more knowledge about Billy and the LCW than what a farmer from Arkansas could have known. Now, if I am correct in that belief then there has to be an explanation why so many can be listed in that article as having viewed or identified the body and my answer boils down to one word. "Hearsay".Wayne - I read the info on that same website with the list of people who viewed Billy's body, you have great points, I don't hear any quotes from them saying " I saw Billy's body in the casket". Now why would anyone say that? Even now when I have seen loved ones laid to rest it is always a point to remark what they were wearing when they were laid out and that the funeral home did a nice job making them look their best. I never have heard any quote of someone saying that Billy was wearing a certain shirt or how he looked after the ladies supposedly cleaned him up. Also, on that website it says Billy was laid out at Beaver's saloon, I have never seen that report anywhere but that website, it may be true, but, I have never seen it anywhere else, seems weird.
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Post by CP on Sept 11, 2021 9:40:33 GMT -5
Sorry Wayne - I am showing my tech knowledge,yikes! My comment and question merged with your quote above, sorry!
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Post by Veronica on Sept 29, 2022 11:42:06 GMT -5
I'm new here but I want to say that after reading what so many have written I feel like the key is Deluvina Maxwell. By her own words she saw Billy's body, and went to his grave every day. Was that to throw people off his trail or did she know for a fact it was Billy that Pat killed?
I, myself, lean towards Brushy being Billy. I don't really see a super strong resemblance in the photos but the fact Brushy had all Billy's scars, and knew about and supposedly had Deluvina's scarf is strong evidence in support of him being BTK. Especially because Deluvina was a slave/servant, with all due respect to her, no one else would have bothered with such a small detail so for Brushy to have that specific fact speaks volumes.
Also, I really feel like if it had been Billy Bonney on the Maxwell porch that night he never would have backed into the room and cornered himself that way, he had good instincts and I believe he would have immediately tried to leave knowing Garrett was in town and on the hunt for him. There is no way folks in the surrounding area didn't warn him, and again, Billy Bonney was no fool.
I can see the townspeople going along with Garrett's lie simply because they knew it was the safest way for their buddy Billy to get away safely, and I think I read that some of those present (Poe?) had never even seen BTK so didn't really know what he looked like.
But Deluvina's dedication to the grave and her own words of "they took my baby boy" ...or something to that effect, I read that in one of her interviews.... gives me pause to think okay maybe it WAS BTK that Pat killed.
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