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Post by MissyS on Sept 20, 2019 22:57:04 GMT -5
Interesting take on the burial, but assuming that Billy dyed his skin and supposedly grew a beard after his escaped from jail, how easily recognizable could he have really been? Outside of the witnesses that personally spent time with him right before he was shot, the other persons that just arrived in town and saw the body and said it was him is questionable to me. Aquaintences that knew him in the past that hadn't seen him since before his jail escape I question the accuracy of those witnesses that say they saw his body due to Billy's assumed changes in appearance, if he really changed his appearance that is or if a bearded Billy Barlow was shot instead?, but either way I'm assuming the body did not look like Billy. There had been accounts that say Billy was buried quickly, and it may account for the reason no photographer was in town at the time because a photographer was not allowed any time to get there. I read accounts that the burial was the next day, that's not allowing much time for any friends or family to arrive so why the hurry? There are other accounts by persons that mentioned that only a few were allowed to view the body, I don't know which is true? The mentioning that Billy was displayed in a Saloon is another question?, it's the first time I read about that, and is interesting.I don't know if a Wake or a Watch is much different than a display? There's a difference in a Carpenters shed and a Saloon though. I guess the burial is just like Garrett's account of the shooting it varies.
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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 21, 2019 0:01:11 GMT -5
Leeb,
You're being a bit ridiculous in suggesting I reread my own answer. Therefore, I'm done with this thread. I won't be commenting on this again because I won't participate in a discussion that isn't going anywhere but in circles. I answer your comment and all you can contribute is the accusation that I didn't answer? That's not a discussion. It's just banter and I choose not to participate.
I'm not referring to most of the other members who contribute to this thread. I will follow those and possibly respond.
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Post by leeb on Sept 21, 2019 14:32:29 GMT -5
[/div][/quote]unless you had a pair of rose tinted brushy glasses!Unfortunately tourism is a lucrative market and as long as the tills keep ringing the hico museum will keep this brushy charade going. Gotta pay the bills![/quote] Useless comment that no one cares to read, if compelling evidence frustrates you, dont read it, you do a lot of trash talking by backing up TTT, honestly thats all I see you do...[/quote] chav88,all i do is ask an explanation. You can read every book under the sun but the outcome is only your opinion. Try contacting the big players, they are more than willing to entertain. Please give every option a chance and stop being blinkered by brushy. That said the powers that be on this forum have bills to pay.
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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 21, 2019 21:12:58 GMT -5
Please be very clear on this. I am the only "powers that be" where this board is concerned and I have no "bills to pay" in relation to it. I make no money from it and this board is hosted for free. That's why you see ads at the top of the pages. Furthermore I have no connection of any kind to the museum in Hico, it's ownership or the payment of their bills. Leeb, please see the private message I've sent you.
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Post by leeb on Sept 22, 2019 5:46:55 GMT -5
Fair play Wayne i shouldn't assume things. Apologies
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Post by Wayne Land on Sept 22, 2019 21:29:51 GMT -5
Thanks leeb.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 2, 2019 20:33:30 GMT -5
or Google, "eyewitnesses to bily the kid bonney's body in death - ASU"
if any of the brushy believers can give a valid reason as to why that vast list of witnesses would lie to cover for garret then I'd love to hear it. leeb, Has anyone other than Wayne attempted to give a valid, credible reason?
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Post by chivato88 on Oct 3, 2019 4:17:33 GMT -5
if any of the brushy believers can give a valid reason as to why that vast list of witnesses would lie to cover for garret then I'd love to hear it. leeb, Has anyone other than Wayne attempted to give a valid, credible reason?
[br It was said numerous times that Garrett stayed in the Maxwell house all night afraid of being mob by Billy's friends, and praticly no one was allowed inside. This article is total BS to me, its impossible that all those people saw the body
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Post by chivato88 on Oct 3, 2019 4:50:38 GMT -5
He talks like Garrett almost made a open casket funeral, that is just ridiculous. Remember the body was burried 6-8 hours after the shooting.So all those people stayed up all night and they all had time to view the body... yeah right
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Post by leeb on Oct 3, 2019 13:48:18 GMT -5
The provenance of the knife is bang on the money. I think you'll find that because it wasn't actually owned by the kid is why it was below estimate. The kid picked it up on a whim it wasn't his personal item,it was in his possession for a very short time. That's why!
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Post by mckinley412 on Oct 3, 2019 22:23:17 GMT -5
if any of the brushy believers can give a valid reason as to why that vast list of witnesses would lie to cover for garret then I'd love to hear it. Do you remember anything about Pat or Poe saying if their intentions in Sumner were found out they would be killed? Poe went in town to find info. Nobody liked these law guys. Most people loved the Kid and this is where he felt safe. You don't know who the witnesses were. There are two coroner reports and they are both different. Maybe you are some big city hot shot but small communities especially poor ones will stick together. Again, look up Skidmore, Missouri...... 40-60 people murdered one guy while the sheriff walked away. It was thoroughly investigated by FBI, etc. People have now died and though they were given the opportunity to confess...they took the secret to their grave. I really wonder if Garrett thought he killed the Kid or just thought he might have killed the wrong person and played naive since others were going with it anyway. The very first book on Billy sounds like Pat shot the wrong person although it was written within a month or 2 and the author (Edmund Fable jr.) did not intend to suggest that. But yeah alleged witnesses did say it was really him and yet we can see where the stories do not add up......... Lobato was there, but then he wasn't there, etc.... and I'm not even referring to Brushy's version. Others have said they were there and it wasn't him so don't forget about those. I'm just saying all these stories about that night don't match to well. If it helps anyone get closer to the truth then I will say that I don't believe the 'official Brushy version of what happened either.' but he told a different story about it also.
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Post by MissyS on Oct 5, 2019 2:35:56 GMT -5
As per his posts from a few months ago, Leeb mentioned that he is/was the owner of a banknote that was purportedly taken from BTK's body by Yginio Salazar, who is conspicuous by his absence from Stahl's list - given the amount of access Salazar would have needed to BTK in order to take the banknote, he would be something of a star witness in terms of supporting the official account of the events at Fort Sumner, yet I've not come across anything that would place him there at the time of the Garrett incident. If he's successful in contacting the late Joe Salazar's son-in-law Ira following the recent request for info on this forum, Leeb might be able to obtain some useful information regarding Yginio's whereabouts on or about the time of the Garrett incident; if it turned out that Yginio was present, it would certainly be useful to all of us on the forum in terms of gaining a more accurate picture of what really happened at Fort Sumner and could also benefit Leeb personally if he was able to sell the banknote to interested parties for considerably more than he'd paid for it originally. I'm wondering if the Pallbearers mentioned at Billy's funeral were different from the Grave diggers?, as maybe some men carried the casket and some other men dug the grave? The reason I wonder is because W C Jameson mentions Yginio Salazar as one of the Pallbearers at Billy's funeral, the others were Vicente Otero, Jesus Silva and Charlie Foor. Jameson I don't believe mentioned Paco Anaya as one of the Pallbearers?, and I remember nmjames had posted on another thread that Charlie Foor did not arrive in Fort Sumner until Oct. 1881, so he should not have been there. The men that dug the grave also varies in an article Ben Kemp said his uncle John Graham was asked to dig the grave along with a Mexican man. Paco Anaya was supposed to have dug the grave, and in Walter Burns book Saga of Billy the Kid, he wrote that a ranch hand named Francisco Medina dug Billy's grave. Medina and Graham are not pictured in the photo of the men standing at the graveside neither is Yginio Salazar. So was Yginio just not present when the photo was taken? Who actually dug the grave and who were the Pallbearers? Also when Tom Ofolliard was shot and buried and even when Charlie Bowdre was buried, how many people in Fort Sumner mentioned witnessing it besides Garrett and his men?
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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 5, 2019 12:12:36 GMT -5
"Medina and Graham are not pictured in the photo of the men standing at the graveside neither is Yginio Salazar"
Don't forget that photo was not taken at the time of the burial. It was taken many years later when the four in the photo were asked to come to the cemetery and point out where the grave was located. They all four chose different spots so the new marker was placed in the center between the four locations.
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Post by MissyS on Oct 5, 2019 14:19:47 GMT -5
Thank You Wayne, I was confused in thinking the photo was taken closer to the time of the burial, it makes more sense as to why others would more likely be missing in the photo considering the expanse of time, if there were others that also dug the grave, thanks for pointing that out.
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Post by mckinley412 on Jul 18, 2020 17:04:44 GMT -5
You can read this if it helps but it seems like they are really reaching at times to come up with more witnesses who can say it was Billy who was killed. But you know how they do. emerituscollege.asu.edu/sites/default/files/ecdw/EVoice22/stahl22.htmlThere are so many stories about who saw what and some oldtimers say it was not many and others say it was many. And then there is this. Obviously, any name they can think of is evidence Bonney was killed.
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